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Aye but because it's the "only" option to them.

We have some of the largest Amish communities in our area. My local meetup have discussed orange pilling the amosh for quite some time.

The only "hangup" is technology but my understanding is most Amish don't mind tech (and my even used special cell phones) so long as it doesn't infronge on their existing core values or open the door to sin.

Bitcoin as a monetary tech would be safe. And in fact would further safeguard their community monetarily.

Now throw ecash in the mix. Elders run the Amish only mints...

elsat 11mo ago

Dont sell them on mints and NIP-60 on day one 😅

Haha of course not. Low time preference here!

But the whole ecash circular economy proposition must ring so damn hard with them if only they knew about it.

I mean they're essentially able to create their own amishcoin to use and control within their own community. But with the safeguard of base layer while maintaining interoperability with the outside monetary system

They don't need it.

You may but they don't.

Why wouldn't they need it? They currently earn and save in USD which is debating considerably. Their savings are being wiped out. Explain again why they wouldn't need bitcoin?

What they need is something that fits with their lower tech tree lifestyle...

Internet & digital ain't "low tech".

That and they aren't reliant on a shop to feed them like most dumb moderns.

Yes this I agree with but the Amish are a circular economy. This does not mean a single Amish family has 100% means to sustain themselves. They still have to trade with other Amish families. On top of that, they still interact and trade with the English (the non-amish).

Anyone that trades is benefitted by a medium of exchange. They currently use USD. They would still benefit from a harder currency like Bitcoin.

Maybe, but they could also just use the old biblical version, there is nothing currently stopping "the english" who want to trade with them buying some to trade with them.

By weight, like it is supposed to be.

Oh do you mean trade gold? Yes. They could but i don't typically bring gold to a farmers market and it's a pain I. The ass getting change. So no, not a real solution.

It's a pain in the ass now because they don't & nobody has set up shop in the area with the stuff.

Like I said, by weight.

OK so if I bring in a gold bar weighing half an oz to buy a carrot, how are you going to provide change? Yeah sure weigh it out. But how do I verify on the spot it's real gold and how do you divide up my gold bar? Does the Amish have to lug around a bunch of gold nuggets for change? Doesn't make any sense. USD still functions better in this case.

Why the hell would you use gold for small purchases?

Come on, there is plenty of historical example of how this worked & full ounces aren't all there is.

Right. So gold is not a very good medium of exchange.

Your other two options are usd and bitcoin. Which is better?

Monometalism is a modern statist creation.

OK sure, but that doesn't change the fact that bitcoin is a better method of exchange than any physical metal coin. Gold or otherwise.

I can weigh metal coins but I have no way to verify on the spot it's not a forgery.

I have to carry around coins and someone has to have a scale.

These old methods worked in a historical context and will continue to work in a post apocalyptic type of context. But in today's current society, bitcoin is better.

For you, who is not in a small closed society who wants little from outside itself.

If this is true why do the Amish currently use USD over precious metal coins?

A bit confused what you're talking about here?

Are you saying that the English can buy bitcoin and trade that with them? Yes nothing physically prevents that but without elders approving bitcoin in the community they would never accept the bitcoin in trade to begin with. The hurdle isn't getting bitcoin into the hands of the Amish, the hurdle is educating them on bitcoin and getting the elders to approve.

I thought the biblical bit would make it obvious, metal.

I gotcha now.

The problem with using gold within the Amish community is no different than the problems of using gold as a medium of exchange in the modern world.

Bitcoin presents all the same benefits as gold and solves a lot of the problems of gold.

Putting gold in the context of Amish doesn't fix any of the downsides of gold as a medium of exchange.

Gold & silver worked perfectly fine when communities were smaller & we weren't trying to buy everything in from elsewhere.

And it is why places that fall apart revert to it or barter.

Perhaps but that was then and this is now.

Bitcoin is a better all around method.

Nothing about bitcoin is antithesis to the Amish religion. And in fact many of the ancillary lessons and lifestyle that bitcoin paves the way for align perfectly with Amish values.

Then go try to peddle it to them, maybe they will, I doubt it, but maybe.

Yes that's the entire point of this thread. We have been working on orange pilling the Amish community because we think it's highly beneficial to them and the bitcoin community.

The key is education and understanding that bitcoin will not introduce sin to their communities.

I see you are so hell bent on this that you are purposely avoiding the existence of silver, so have at it.

Dude ok silver copper bronze tin whatever. The type of metal doesn't matter. All physical coins are an inferior method of exchange vs bitcoin.

So next you plan to have them doing online shopping & international trade like the rest of us? 😂

Transportability doesn't factor into it if it is only local, diluting may but can be easily avoided.

Transportation still matters locally. If one guy has gold in his house and wants to go down the street (locally) to trade with their buddy, they have to transport it.

I assure you, I have zero problem walking 5 miles to town with the quantities required.

Having a digital money does not mean you have to shop at Amazon.

Just because a feature exists does not mean you have to use it.

Bitcoin is digital but they can have Amish wallets that only access internet so far as to access a node. Without access to Amazon or any other online retailer they won't be using the bitcoin to shop online. They can transact locally and utilize the global bitcoin network without having to access the wider internet.

That's what they currently do with their cell phones now. The ones who have smart phones have some limited and restricted Amish only apps. They have access to certain things deemed safe but everything else is closed off. Application of bitcoin would be no different

You miss the point, the functionality that makes it useful to you & was a problem for you is not to them.

It is a problem to them though. Again I pose to you, if it wasn't a problem, why do they transact with USD over precious metals?

The answer to that is obvious, everyone outside is trading with it.

Bitcoin is currently and has been useless for trade where I am, nobody accepts it for anything remotely necessary...

Try getting general acceptance up first.

Cypherpunk has already pointed out this problem.

At this point it is only useful for what everyone else is using it for.

I can and have had people accept metal.

That's the idea here no? Increase the % of ppl worldwide using bitcoin? To get a normie to accept bitcoin they have to unlearn a lot of what they know about economics lifestyles (time preference) etc.

The whole point is that Amish are actually the "low hanging fruit". They already subscribe to most of the lifestyle choices bitcoin teaches and the only perceived hangup is "tech". But that simply comes from a misunderstanding of why Amish avoid tech in the first place

Then less talk, more action, go talk to them.

They aren't on here.

We've put a lot of words into action already 🫡

Appreciate the convo btw. It's good to hear opposing opinions to help build the case.

One more thing, do you mean Amish or Mennonites? I'm not certain where the line is between them but certainly the old order are less tolerant / more suspicious of tech.

Just how much deviation is there between them before they are the other?

I'm 90% sure it's the Mennonite that are more strict. I think its the Amish that allow for some tech and stuff. Not exactly sure what criteria for one to be the other.

https://www.discoverlancaster.com/blog/difference-between-amish-and-mennonite/

Looks to be the other way around.

Ahhh thanks. Got em mixed up.

Right so introducing bitcoin to their economy does not preclude their use of usd when necessary. But the deflationary aspect of bitcoin brings them a better method of saving.

It's also more convenient to trade with locally within their community over any physical money.

If they want to use gold coins, fine, but the fact is they don't. Bitcoin offers a better option that has the monetary properties of precious metals with the portability of digital money.