there is a large moneyary investment in this space in centralized nostr (primal) and centralized bitcoin (cashu)
Criticizing any of these? Good luck getting a grant or invited to that next prestigious event.
nostr was more fun when it wasnāt being subverted by money and influence peddling.
Unfortunately they canāt buy me or shut me up. I couldnāt give more of a shit about money or influence.
It all began in Prague, two years ago...
how so? i raised $40K via crowdfunding. it was supported by many businesses and developers across the ecosystem. some supported it more than others because they had funding to do so. without their support, that booth would not have hapened.
stay tuned for Prague 2026 announcements.
how is primal centralized? could you please quickly enlighten me or share some post?
the client doesnāt verify notes or read from relays. It is just a lite client that talks a proprietary api to their caching server. That server controls everything you see and could ban people and you wouldnāt know it. Itās against the entire ethos of nostr where users control what they see
i didn't know that about nostr:npub12vkcxr0luzwp8e673v29eqjhrr7p9vqq8asav85swaepclllj09sylpugg
so all those relays are just "decorative" ?
only caching service matters ?
I wonder if you can have no caching service and see what happens.
Just set the URL to wss://example.com and watch it break
Yeah its mostly performative to make it seem like they are decentralized. They should label it āwrite relaysā to be less scammy. Assuming they actually write to themā¦. If not then itās super scammy.
It just wonāt work. Because you canāt use Nostr outside of their walled garden. Try it.
I agree such features are against the ethos. Yet Nostr remains decentralized and no client/platform can permanently change that.
yes, but raising awareness of this is important so that it stays this way
I actually didn't even know that until right now. I've been here for years, although hardly as a Primal user (occasional testing to see what they're up to - like this week). Highlighting the pros and cons for alternatives is important and people should do the same with Damus or any other client.
But I haven't verified this, to be clear. I just haven't heard it before now. We should also verify.
You could connect to other caching services tho right? The caching definitely makes the experience better.
it really doesnāt. damus android/notedeck has an embedded caching relay that does the same thing and is way faster
Don't like Primal? Use a different nostr client.
Don't like cashu? Use real bitcoin.
Don't like lightning? Use real bitcoin.
People are building on top of decentralized assets/platforms. These solutions inherently bring centralization. The key is that the underlying asset or platform remains decentralized and unchanged.
Well done. Will.
Yes, those financial institutions are implicitly censoring developers' speech.
Nostr can still express themselves freely and fully, but we have no hatred.
The beauty with all of this stuff is that we have choice. People like nostr:nprofile1qqsyvrp9u6p0mfur9dfdru3d853tx9mdjuhkphxuxgfwmryja7zsvhqpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5hszythwden5te0dehhxarj9emkjmn99ue6qm68 are on the side of decentralization and choice (I love him for that) while others go the other way or somewhere between the two extremes. I tend to try the major stuff at least once to see what people are doing, but I tend to agree with the philosophy of decentralization. More so when it has good UI/UX, which is always being improved. Vitor was discussing something similar related to GrapheneOS. I see his point that we don't have to sacrifice good principles for convenience, which seems to be the case with some applications. It all takes time and honest work. Healthy communication would help a lot, but I don't see that happening with certain people around here.
But it's in the name of convenience, mass adoption and privacy. Muh.
Nostr was fun free years back, now it's either nuts, cashu and or some other weird tech that is not adding much value.
Serverless tech such as #Keet has more going on that is cool, nostr needs to adapt or it will remain a niche circle jerk thing.
you get funded through OpenSats and you are critical of both. OpenSats seems to be working as intended.
and HRF, and jack, and the initial nostr fund
š
Yeah Iām so confused by all of you tbh because from where Iām sitting it looks like everyone is funded by nostr:nprofile1qqsgydql3q4ka27d9wnlrmus4tvkrnc8ftc4h8h5fgyln54gl0a7dgspzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgqgdwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkcjt4jxf
you're absolutely correct here. jack has funded AOS, HRF, and OpenSats.
jack's funding could be seen as a single point of failure or jack's funding could be seen as a way to bootstrap development and allow open source developers to eat food and have shelter while the ecosystem grows and companies determine monetization models.
maybe it's all of the above.
either way, it seems better than being funded by VCs and having to bend the knee to shareholders. right?
if you know of a better solution, im all ears.
I donāt care who you guys are funded by or how you get fundedā¦ literally not my business
In fact, itās the people who have been running shit for the past 3-5 years that have made all the rules around ethical disclosures, KYC, etc etc
Iāve made it very clear what I think- Bitcoin is black market money and I support Bitcoin as an agorist movement
Do what you want? I challenge Jack all the time and idgaf what Jack thinks about it either because if Jack finds that problematic then he doesnāt understand the community that he created.
Same for Amirā¦ people seem to have forgotten that we agreed to keep challengers at every level to avoid past historical economic failures.
Problem is everyone is funded by the same 4 nobodies at the top aside from a handful of early OGs
Also pretty sure Iāve donated to opensatsā¦ I canāt remember but I think I have so technically yall are funded by me 2 lol
What a mess layer 2s have made of everything
You had me at agorist movement.
Start by reading Samuel Edward Konkin's "The New Libertarian Manifesto", and welcome :)
Oh yea I've read all his stuff. We even sell it at my bookstore nostr:npub1c74n52sngtmceu96gxms7lsfcdz3gqsfla9swcdgt7wc0qw684zqfe2cj2 :
https://whitepaperbooks.com/search?q=konkin&options%5Bprefix%5D=last
yes money is spent in many different ways. This is not a criticism of the money source or grant orgs, itās how they are wielded. I donāt think there is any conspiracy or plot, it just happens naturally when cliques form around money sources.
Iām not even really complaining about anything, it was more an observation anytime i talk non-positively about primal/cashu and then getting attacked by investors and certain cliques of people.
I donāt think there is a solution. For me i just always try to speak the truth and accept the consequences.
Fair enough.
Some people also invest their ego into their work and don't always separate the two for criticism. We all probably struggle with this at some point.
I've experienced this when providing feedback (my opinion) on poor UI/UX. "What have you built?!"
Anyone who produces more than they consume is building something. We don't all need to be doing the exact same work to have an opinion or provide feedback/criticism. Sometimes taking the time to calmly discuss and educate goes a long way. This has been a major struggle for me that I'm getting better at I think.
I think thatās fair
I think you should all be challenging each other
Thatās how good products are made and how we avoid monopolistic experiences
As long as people stay challenging Jack as well
There's a difference between civil challenges (I challenge my friends frequently, and they challenge me) and grade school face making, which is what a lot of these disagreements have devolved into.
It's hilarious. He gets money from everyone, ships nothing, and just complains endlessly.
The "ships nothing" part is the most offensive.
wait didn't he spend like three months building his own graphical rendering engine or something?
Iād be more concerned with the guy replacing peoples photos/thumbnails on their caching server. (To make it faster)
Than someone writing code to speed up his own app.
"ships nothing"?
apparently building two *actually decentralized* native clients that work on all platforms from scratch, the fastest embedded nostr relay database, an opengraph deeplink serverā¦ all this is nothing š
I must be posting these notes from my imagination? Iām with Vinney. Things seem to be shipping just fine.
Youāre a pedophile
Damus works, every time.
Be proud.
I respect that you speak your mind. Not sure I'd do the same in your shoes, honestly
HFSP
Damusā grant from nostr:nprofile1qqs8suecw4luyht9ekff89x4uacneapk8r5dyk0gmn6uwwurf6u9ruspz4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezummcw3ezuer9wchsz8nhwden5te0dehhxarj94c82c3wwajkcmr0wfjx2u3wdejhgtcxfdhu7 was literally just renewed.
I donāt know what this is for. I have an LTS until 2026 with opensats. That has not been renewed as far as i know. At least i didnāt sign anything or give new bitcoin addresses.
You are an egotistical and ungrateful fuckwit. I hope you lose your grant.
You can just build. Or complain. Or both. Or neither. LFG
I usually just build but occasionally i am attacked by primal investors so i like to crack out one of these posts every now and then.
Ya I can feel the cult pull on Nostr lately as I returned from hiatus.
Beauty is we can dilute them with new users and speak freely to call it out.
š«
Nostr is for enemies š«
Solution: Invite more FOSS devs who donāt give a ratās ass about grants or BTC/Nostr conferences. Fat Zap them so they actually keep building their stuff.
Hint: Remember that most folks capable of building solutions on Nostr or BTC/Lightning could easily be earning around US$1k a day as contractors, (depending on where they live of course).
this is true
Those zaps would need to be bigger than most of the grants.
They should. Folks here are fighting for pennies. I mean, honestly, even in Germany, where salaries are relatively lower than in the US, how much would a Senior QA person like you earn? Around ā¬100k a year base, at least in Berlin or Munich? And youāre going way, way, way beyond quality and testing here on Nostr. Plus, you have other people working with you.
So I donāt see why anyone would expect something as ambitious as, say, Alexandria to get off the ground purely with grant money as, even in this awful market of ours. We need to move beyond the amateur Web3 full-stack TypeScript/Deno "vibecoder on a shoestring budget" phase before we can even start talking seriously about V2V on Nostr. Other than for maybe six people, Nostr is an absolute value sink for anyone building anything right now. And love, passion, and motivation alone arenāt sustainable long-term. We need a mix of proper businesses (beyond L2 payment stuff) and FOSS culture here.
If Nostriches can buy raw milk, tallow soap, etc., they can also zap, say, 100k sats to the devs of the projects they use a few times a year. If enough people do this, Nostr becomes its own thing instead of just a BTC payment solution marketplace.
the community has already pushed away an absurd amount of competent people over the past decade. they're not coming.
Yea i might be one of the few crazies that donāt give a rats ass š
To the builders that don't give a rats ass! š»
"Fat zap them" - but who is gonna zap? Will you zap them regularly with decent amounts so they can pay the bills without fiat contracting job? I think this is why those grants are there
I'm zapping way, way, way more than the average Nostrich... Plus I have been maintaining a lot of Nostr software. Can't do it alone though. And Grants won't pay my bills either, not in the UK. You know what could? Like 10 USD a month * one third of the regulars here on Nostr. That could pay for the bills of a lot of devs and operators. You know how many people do this? Well, none is doing it for anything that I built or maintained so far.
You know how many people zap more on AI Generate memes and garbage copied from X than on Devs? A whole lot of people.
you propose we keep them around by zapping them $1k/day?
For a full-time senior developer in HCOL areas in the US (New York, San Francisco, etc.), yes, or at least close to it if youād expect them to work 40+ hours a week, just like they would at Big Tech or Major Banks.
Nostr already has plenty of active npubs. How many active users do we have right now, around 30k? If 10k of them paid $10 a month, that would be enough to fund three full-time developers; say, Fiafjaf and a couple of core US-based devs. Alternatively, you could fund six people in Germany, twelve in South America, or even more across most of Asia. Or a mix of all that. You could also have part-time developers... lots of possibilities. And as Nostr grows the funding would increase.
Whatever the setup, I think donations should flow directly from plebs to devs . Not from BTC companies, not from billionaires, not from private equity and VC Funds. Otherwise, weāre essentially saying that Nostr (both the the protocol and the ecosystem) isnāt worth $10 a month to its users. And if thatās the case, then honestly, there are already plenty of centralised, extractive social media solutions out there with a much better architecture than Nostr for the "ADS and User data extraction" use cases
Someone needs to add crowdfunding to https://catallax.network and we can start doing this tomorrow.
https://catallax.network/use-cases#open-source-software-and-bug-bounties-
Put up a bounty for a feature in X open source client, assign it to the original author of the client, get the zaps, do the work. The client dev gets paid, the community gets their feature.
I am so here for the nostr civil war.
š¤
the evil powers that be can't stop us from building š
When the money flows in, the principles often flow out.
Doesnāt Damus use a custodial centralized wallet with coinos? Would it be better if coinos used a cashu mint for better privacy?
We have it as an option, but the technology is NWC. We donāt have any deep custom integration with coinos other than a way to create an account there automatically. You can swap it out for your own node (thats what i do)
This reads like a small kid who lost at a basketball game š. Cope harder my dude
time to go crazy. fuk it enable monero on damus. the cypherpunk beast inside is calling
canāt you just put your address in your profile? What would monero in damus look like?
people liked my old nostrudel fork because it just had a button that showed the address in a qr code, also had a "pay in wallet" because the bip21 auto-fills to send, then it's a plain tip button without the zap event and just opens the preferred wallet that accepts that URI scheme at the right place, things like this just get the address from bio "closer" to usage, without any advanced integration needed from the developer, which would work for btc onchain or alts too
but yeah not an actual integration, I'm remaking my client but will still use the simple idea, but this simple idea is enough for people to love it X users keep bugging platforms like odysee to do something like this and then it's an "integration", but to advance on a monero integration it could use payment IDs, or use the viewkey to generate subaddresses, then per event on send you know which event of yours got tipped, then from viewkey usage maybe a proper zap event could be created by using receipt proofs, etc, some people already experiment on this today
Holy shit, YOU made moStard?
homie thinks that perfect surveillance is a requirement for hard money
its unfortunately probably a precondition for mass adoption :/ at least we have lightning
Let me correct it for you
"There is a large monetary investment in centralized Nostr (primal) and centralized bitcoin (Custodial Shitcoin Cashu & Shitcoin Core)"
I already called out nostr:nprofile1qqsw3znfr6vdnxrujezjrhlkqqjlvpcqx79ys7gcph9mkjjsy7zsgygpzpmhxue69uh5ummnw3ezuamfdejsz9thwden5te0v4jx2m3wdehhxarj9ekxzmnymlvvup and nostr:nprofile1qqsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgprpmhxue69uhhqun9d45h2mfwwpexjmtpdshxuet5qyt8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnswf5k6ctv9ehx2aqnz0fd0 for funding Gay Calle today but I don't think they will ever respond back to me (including nostr:nprofile1qqsgydql3q4ka27d9wnlrmus4tvkrnc8ftc4h8h5fgyln54gl0a7dgspp4mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mqpxdmhxue69uhkuamr9ec8y6tdv9kzumn9wshkz7tkdfkx26tvd4urqctvxa4ryur3wsergut9vsch5dmp8pese6nj96) because they know that it's true.
https://primal.net/e/nevent1qqsv88wrknv5rvn43sm407t062me69ceu7s66vttwxqkvz3vknag28qlzpzlm
is āgay calleā necessary?
Calle is right about core, knots is dumb
Ok then maybe you both are dumb then...!!!
And have fun being coretard just like your friend "Gay Calle"
Absolutely.
It adds so much context for the people who can understand the meaning of FILTER but not for the people who don't understand the FILTER.
General bitcoin space suffers similar fate, its very centralized with several people influencing a lot more than ppl imagine through backchannels and string pulling.
The space is tiny and cross polination of organizations/events by the same individualas is huge, very easy get shadow banned
I didn't realize you had a beef with Cashu.
I have been openly critical about that project and its design choices and been treated like a red-headed piece of shit by a lot of people on here, particularly developers.
I have nothing against Primal, but I'm not interested in using their walled garden setup, so it is what it is.
i had no issues with him, until he started attacking me just because I wasn't 100% on board with cashu
i guess the "bitcoin for signal" and "bitcoin for imessage" irked me a lot as well. affinity scamming is such a bad look.
Yeah, he tends to do this.
And just to be honest, it's a red flag to me.
Tee hee. 
It isn't just cashu
the entire bitcoin space is paralyzed because everyone is terrified that if they do anything else
except for the reference-implementation HTLC-based blocksize-war approved thing
the big money won't follow them
and the big money is hostile anyway
we could have so much š¢
At this point it's not just about money. Devs are scared of getting arrested. This is another reason the privacy focused Monero community is pulling ahead in the dev race
Regardless of who youāre calling out or frustrated by
The fact that you can have your opinion, free of fear (be that de-platforming or removal of funding), is the absolute key
About the only time I believe diversity is actually powerful as a metric is when it comes to opinions
Say what you want. Think what you want. Go for it
Youāre a pedophile
I once attended one of those āprestigiousā corporate yacht events in Dubai. Letās just say there were more suits than seagulls. š But honestly, being out on the water itself was calmingā¦ until someone started talking about Bitcoin nonstop. If you ever want to experience Dubai waters without the āinfluence peddling,ā this page has some simple yacht options for corporate events (no crypto-talk guaranteed!): https://www.yachtdxb.com/yacht-packages/corporate-events-yacht-charter-dubai/ Keep being you!
Whatās the difference between Primal and Damus?
Good question...
Quite a bit but the main gripe people have is that Primal can be very X/twitter like. To put it simply.
Need to create a pros/cons list of these two clients, and any other client that has thrown their hat in the ring.
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We are looking for someone who can invest 45,000 US dollars in our company.
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Those 'prestigious events' are useless signaling events.
Just continue building good products!
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With this budget, we will produce our own uniquely designed furniture through our contracted manufacturers and offer them to the global market. By producing in bulk (wholesale), we will significantly reduce production costs and be able to sell high-quality, durable, and aesthetically pleasing furniture at affordable prices.
With the budget of 45,000 US dollars you will invest in our company, we will produce our own designed furniture and sell it in the global market.
With the money you lend, we will have the company we have agreed on produce quality furniture for a certain amount of money and sell it on the international market.
Since our furniture will be produced wholesale, we will provide a cost advantage and will be offered to customers at affordable prices.
In short, we will be able to sell quality, beautiful-looking, comfortable furniture to people at affordable prices.
Since the furniture we produce will be made of cheap and high-quality materials, people will want to buy it quickly.
You know that furniture is a type of profession that has been very profitable for years and will provide us with a large profit in a short time.
Thanks to our experience in advertising, we will expand into international markets and make quick profits.
Because our advertising network is strong, we will be able to acquire a customer base from many countries in a short time.
This means that within this project, your money will grow more than fivefold in a short period, providing you with a high and guaranteed profit.
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To learn how to lend 45,000 US dollars to our company and to get detailed information about our educational project, send a message to my Telegram username below.
To learn how you can invest 45,000 US dollars in our company and how you can participate in our furniture project, send a message to my Telegram username below and I will give you detailed information.
To learn how you can multiply your money by investing 45,000 US dollars in our company and to get detailed information about our furniture project, send a message to my Telegram username below.
To learn how you can lend 45,000 US dollars to our company and increase your money by participating in our furniture project, send a message to my Telegram username below and all detailed information will be given to you.
Turn your capital into opportunity! Our company is seeking a 45,000 USD investment to expand our innovative furniture project. Join us and discover how your money can grow while supporting a global venture. For full details, message us on Telegram at the username below.
For detailed information and to learn how you can participate in our furniture project, send a message to my Telegram username below and I will give you detailed information.
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Come to Vienna on May 27th and May28th
More too share soon
Will after this post you have a new follower š
Capture thrives when itās fuzzy. Make it measurable: publish an optāout friction score. Count chokepoints from keys to broadcast, selfāhost paths, and perāfeature off switches. We use this lens at Masters of The Lair. Would a public scorecard keep things honest?
Appreciate you saying this out loud.
I get the Primal criticism.
Cashu I'm less clear about. It's a protocol, not a specific product. Anyone can operate a mint, and indeed, as far as I can see, many do: https://audit.8333.space/
Yes, it is more centralized than Lightning, which is more centralized than L1 Bitcoin. But it has its use cases.
use cashu if you like cashu, i really donāt care. I personally donāt have any use for it and would rather focus on improving lightning tech
