Avatar
PABLOF7z 1y ago πŸ’¬ 273

THE MONEY IS IN THE NOSTR!

πŸ‘‰ Create a new npub AND DOING NOTHING ELSE, no WoS, no nostr-wallet-connect pairing,... NOTHING

β˜‘οΈ receive zaps

β˜‘οΈ send zaps

β˜‘οΈ and most importantly ACCESS MY WALLET FROM ANY CLIENT ON ANY DEVICE

these zaps are verifiable, way faster -- they are immediate (since the sending of the ecash is the zap, instead of waiting for a LN node to, maybe, publish a zap receipt)

Just like our contact lists follows us around, just like our profile data and our shitposts pops up in any nostr application, now so does our sats.

the money is in the nostr!

https://m.primal.net/JOgu.mp4

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

Avatar
SoupBox 1y ago

Access your wallet? Cool

Avatar
florian 1y ago

There is no wallet. Your sats live on the nostr relays.

Avatar
archjourney 1y ago

what if Relay disappears. Ecash gone, right??

Avatar
Kosmosis 1y ago

All the relays need to disappear.

Avatar
archjourney 1y ago

all? So the ecash lives somehow in all the relays or in that I am connected to?

Avatar
ciori 1y ago

Yeah I guess you can basically treat each zap (ecash token) as a nostr event propagated on some relays

Avatar
calle 1y ago πŸ’¬ 1

No, once it's in your wallet, it's there. Even if the relay disappears. Only payments you haven't received yet (while you were offline) can potentially disappear if all relays they are published to disappear.

Avatar
SoupBox 1y ago

I was making a joke about the ACCESS MY WALLET (Pablos).....might of have been a reach of a joke

Avatar
TKay 1y ago

Holy smokes! what have you done!

Avatar
Boog 1y ago

πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ I swear this guy is a genius

Avatar
Thoreau 1y ago

How does the wallet know the tokens aren't claimed yet by the mint? Like if I zap you some ecash, don't I also have the token, you think you have it in your wallet but I can still claim it from the mint? πŸ€”

Avatar
PABLOF7z 1y ago

It’s locked to the pubkey of the recipient; once you send the zap you can’t spend it anymore; only the recipient can.

fc
tolot 1y ago

Goddit. Since the token is existing locally before being encrypted to a pukey, what prevents someone to create a client (or fork one) to include the option of keeping a not-encrypted version of the token locally, yhen psying by encryping it to pubkey. Then claiming back the not-encrypted version?

That's more an ecash-related question I guess

Avatar
vinney...axkl 1y ago

Also would like to know the answer to this.

"New" solves for the double spend problem have me suspicious.

But you're probably right that those are "eCash things" and that has a double spend solution already

fc
tolot 1y ago

Probably the solution is to bury these exceptions under the GUI, just like onchain wallets usually hide UTXOs already transferred even though the TX is not confirmed yet.

As of now I don't think that cashu can solve this double spending problem, because a token is just digital information...easily replicable

Avatar
vinney...axkl 1y ago

At 41:00 nostr:nprofile1qqs9pk20ctv9srrg9vr354p03v0rrgsqkpggh2u45va77zz4mu5p6ccpremhxue69uhkummnw3ez6ur4vgh8wetvd3hhyer9wghxuet59uq32amnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwv3sk6atn9e5k7tcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp069f2j4 explains ecash double spend solution: https://fountain.fm/episode/aRawwvphCkYqxeS7EjOV

Avatar
calle 1y ago

The token that exists before is destroyed (spent) when you lock to a pubkey, which results in a new token. The old token can not be spent again.

Avatar
calle 1y ago

(It's not encrypted to a pubkey, it's *locked*, i.e., it's irreversible)

Avatar
calle 1y ago

https://github.com/cashubtc/nuts/blob/main/11.md

fc
tolot 1y ago

Nice call, thanks

fc
tolot 1y ago

Okay so basically you burn an old token and ask the mint to create a new one locked to a pukey.

How is that supposed to work for offline transfers then? I saw something like that with cashu.me and offline transfers.

Avatar
calle 1y ago πŸ’¬ 1

If it's locked to you, you can receive it offline.

fc
tolot 1y ago

I'm gonna catch up with all this stuff in NUTs then, thanks for the answers

Avatar
α΄›Κœα΄‡ α΄…α΄‡α΄€α΄›Κœ ᴏꜰ α΄ΚŸα΄‡α΄‹α΄œ 1y ago

it's not really precise to say it's locked, it's encrypted such that only the holder of the nsec corresponding to the npub can spend it

you only have to have the nsec and voila

Avatar
α΄›Κœα΄‡ α΄…α΄‡α΄€α΄›Κœ ᴏꜰ α΄ΚŸα΄‡α΄‹α΄œ 1y ago

s/spend/decrypt/

Avatar
calle 1y ago

no, it's locked, not encrypted.

Avatar
BITKARROT 1y ago

ON FIRE!!!!!!!

Avatar
TKay 1y ago πŸ’¬ 1

This is really cool! nostr:npub1key55ax33gkl50uqemvl4khrtqrhzm7wzpc7fhseutt5ddkcwcrqgxlt3h Pablo just solved the NYC problem.

nostr:note1qzye7ekjgq2gw6rr5v5vc3h6mf2043tshtnsmdk6vskx26dlgx5qskqz34

Avatar
BITKARROT 1y ago

what's the NYC problem?

Avatar
The Daniel πŸ–– 1y ago

No custodial Lightning wallets because of the BitLicense regs.

Avatar
BITKARROT 1y ago

Ah that stupid Lawsky from 2014

Avatar
The Daniel πŸ–– 1y ago

Still fucking us over on the daily.

Avatar
BITKARROT 1y ago

Yea no kidding, moved all the early stage innovation

Avatar
BITKARROT 1y ago

…. Outside of the US. Still appears to be the case.

Avatar
Bison 1y ago

Pablo I hope you’re doing well

Avatar
Derek Ross 1y ago

I am not able to watch this now, but I know it's probably bullshit. πŸ«‚πŸ€™πŸ»πŸ’œ

Avatar
vectr 1y ago

Somebody crossed the beams

Avatar
walker 1y ago

WHAT IS THIS SORCERY?!?

Avatar
S!ayer 1y ago

waaaaaay to sick dude! When is this dropping?

Avatar
⚑️ 1y ago

πŸ‘

Avatar
Satosha 1y ago

Wow ..

what does it take for a client to implement this ?

Avatar
calle 1y ago

HOLY MOTHER OF GOD

Avatar
dread 1y ago

her name was Yeshimebet

Avatar
calle 1y ago πŸ’¬ 3

"SO THIS WALLET IS ACTUALLY A NOSTR EVENT"

ecash 🀝 nostr

🀯🀯πŸ₯œπŸ€―🀯

nostr:note1qzye7ekjgq2gw6rr5v5vc3h6mf2043tshtnsmdk6vskx26dlgx5qskqz34

Avatar
Relic 1y ago

Centralized social media and money services in disbelief. I love it! πŸ˜‚

Even Elons β€œeverything app” cannot compete with Nostr innovation

Avatar
calle 1y ago

Pablo took Cashu and unlocked the next chapter.

I AM SO BULLSHIT!

nostr:note1qzye7ekjgq2gw6rr5v5vc3h6mf2043tshtnsmdk6vskx26dlgx5qskqz34

Avatar
techjunkie 1y ago

Great work

Avatar
Ian 1y ago

πŸ§‘βœŠπŸ’œ

Avatar
ภ๏รtг๏ภคฒt 1y ago

If your favorite social app had a child 🐣 with CashApp and the baby ate a magic shroom πŸ„ to gain newΒ superpowers... that’s Nostr in a nutshell.

Avatar
SatsMan 1y ago

πŸ’œ

Avatar
Gigi 1y ago

Avatar
π•Ύπ–Šπ–— π•Ύπ–‘π–Šπ–Šπ–•π–ž 1y ago

Insane I’m gonna have to come back to this later n give it my full attention

is this one of the reasons why you’ve been increasingly more bullshit than usual

Avatar
BITKARROT 1y ago

HOLY BULLSHIT ENUTZZZZ

Avatar
Ian 1y ago

Guy this is worth more than a measley 3k SATs in zaps. If you won't zap this what will you zap?

Avatar
Sergio 1y ago

Fucking brilliant Pablo!!! πŸ‘

Avatar
franzap 1y ago

Fucking great dude. What mint is this using and how can it be changed? Can it use multiple mints?

63
nobody 1y ago

Wow! This is the last piece I have been looking for.

Now, its time to build!

Avatar
Palmira 1y ago

Yay!

Avatar
Fat Zaps 1y ago

nostr:npub1pmhevxtlt3478pvmdqt7dftnv6zc2mzpdc569yjm6ks4k2jhezcs53uksr zapped ⚑️50,000 sats

nostr:note1qzye7ekjgq2gw6rr5v5vc3h6mf2043tshtnsmdk6vskx26dlgx5qskqz34

Avatar
Tico πŸ‡¨πŸ‡· 1y ago

πŸ₯œ nutting to see here

πŸ˜‰

Avatar
DeAllen Young 1y ago

Whaaaat?! Just when you think you have a handle on all of this 🀯🀯🀯

Avatar
Anti Spasti 1y ago

Avatar
Moss 1y ago

well done

Avatar
Steve 1y ago

Should I not be learning about lnurl and instead dig into nostr and zaps? Still learning terminology...

Wondering where can I start and contribute.

Avatar
Derek Ross 1y ago

LNURL is old school. This is new school.

Avatar
Steve 1y ago

Damnit! Wasted a day diging through the LNURL auth protocol. πŸ€¦β€β™‚οΈ

Next up: Diving into Nostr. πŸŠβ€β™‚οΈ

Avatar
Johano 1y ago

Deeper understanding is never a waste!

Avatar
elsat 1y ago

Any language you prefer?

Avatar
Steve 1y ago

I'm solid in JS, and use Typescript on all my projects. I can get around in most languages though.

Avatar
Chris 1y ago

So this is different to bolt right?

Avatar
Clockwerk 1y ago

Wait what

Avatar
J.erb 1y ago

nostr:npub1l2vyh47mk2p0qlsku7hg0vn29faehy9hy34ygaclpn66ukqp3afqutajft So impressive, best developer 2024🐐

Avatar
J.erb 1y ago

Nostr & Bitcoin moving at breakneck speeds... Amazing #ecash #nostr #bitcoin

nostr:note1qzye7ekjgq2gw6rr5v5vc3h6mf2043tshtnsmdk6vskx26dlgx5qskqz34

Avatar
Derek Ross 1y ago πŸ’¬ 5

From Nostr keys creation to receiving money in mere seconds. Yes this is the future. Yes this is custodial. Yes clients need to teach people about withdrawals to non custodial solutions. Yes this is still the future.

nostr:nevent1qqsqpzvlvmfyq9y8dp36x2xvgmad5486c4ct4ecdkmdxgtr9dxl5r2qpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7q3ql2vyh47mk2p0qlsku7hg0vn29faehy9hy34ygaclpn66ukqp3afqxpqqqqqqza3ul8j

Avatar
kohei 1y ago

🀯🀯🀯

Avatar
⚑tephen 1y ago

Woo! πŸ™Œ πŸ”₯

Avatar
βΈΈ commander β–‘ nova βΈΈ :~$ 1y ago

Yo that’s pretty cool

Avatar
mister_monster 1y ago

Very interesting, I have a few questions about this.

Is this feature still going to require providing name, dob, country of residence etc to primal, as setting up the wallet does now?

Is is there some central server like a primal server needed to get this to work? Or is it relays and ecash mints only?

Thanks.

Avatar
Cygus 44 1y ago

If it was bound to primal, it's worthless πŸ˜•

Avatar
Gigi 1y ago

Relays and ecash mints only.

Avatar
archjourney 1y ago

so Relay disappears. Ecash gone??

Avatar
PABLOF7z 1y ago

All must disappear at the same time; I have the concept of β€œrelays health” on each token so that can always keep copies in n relays

Avatar
_ 1y ago

And can a user add their own mint as well? Or do they come with the client side itself configured?

Avatar
. 1y ago

Avatar
. 1y ago

PLS money!!!

Avatar
Melvin Carvalho 1y ago

This is layer 3. It is the future.

Avatar
. 1y ago

Layer 69

Avatar
Brunswick 1y ago

This will make nostr moon

Avatar
TheWildHustle 1y ago

πŸ”₯ πŸ”₯ πŸ”₯

nostr:note1qzye7ekjgq2gw6rr5v5vc3h6mf2043tshtnsmdk6vskx26dlgx5qskqz34

13
econ_student 1y ago

Honestly it's amazing that the project has moved almost 1 million in the past two months!

Avatar
Lhasa Sensei 1y ago

Avatar
TheWildHustle 1y ago

Probably one of the best Nostr UI/UX upgrades of the year.

Avatar
Brandon Tompkins 1y ago

Can someone explain this to me like I'm a child?

What's actually going on?

Avatar
Christina 1y ago

This is a demo of an app where the balance from nostr zaps are somehow magically tied to my nsec using ecash. Until now I could add my nsec to different nostr apps but each one of them uses a different lightning wallet. This puts zap IN nostr

Avatar
James A Lewis 1y ago

This is next level! Custodial Lightning separate from Nostr will seem very convoluted for normies, so this is a huge leap forward.

Avatar
Ζ‘Κ‰Ν«cΝ§ΠΊΝ­ΞΉΝͺΞ·Ν£ 𝕡𝖔𝖍𝖓 ⚑️⚑️ 1y ago

Wow this is nice very user friendly better even use stablesats for that and please add nip06

nostr:note1qzye7ekjgq2gw6rr5v5vc3h6mf2043tshtnsmdk6vskx26dlgx5qskqz34

Avatar
BtcPins 1y ago

That's pretty fuckin slick.

Would this enable a mint to be able to track what tokens belong to which npub?

Avatar
calle 1y ago

yes

Avatar
calle 1y ago

however, once it is received, and it's unlocked, the mint doesn't see where it went.

Avatar
BtcPins 1y ago

Can the mint refuse to sign tokens that are locked to a specific npub then?

Avatar
calle 1y ago

yes. it would require some form of zero knowledge proof or an equivalent of silent payments to make it impossible for the mint to see who the owner of a (pseudorandom) pubkey is.

Avatar
John James 1y ago

Hell yea!!!!

Avatar
ImaginaryEvent 1y ago

Wow!

Avatar
BITKARROT 1y ago

πŸ”₯πŸ”₯πŸ”₯

Avatar
BITKARROT 1y ago

Can this be made as a recurring payment?

Avatar
Nice and Kind Vic 1y ago

NWC can work for recurring payments, at least the way alby has done

Avatar
tank 1y ago

πŸ”₯πŸ”₯πŸ”₯

Avatar
Cygus 44 1y ago

How do the SATs go from #Bitcoin onchain to the mints?

Avatar
Guga Figueiredo 1y ago

and then back. the important questions

Avatar
Diacone Frost 1y ago

via lightning

Avatar
SOVEREIGN Community Infrastructure 1y ago

Need to zap you been using Nostri.chat it is excellent. Going thru the zap recession πŸ˜†

26
good Vietnam 1y ago

Ecash will change many IT platforms

Avatar
Gigi 1y ago

"It's Friday which means it's Demo Day" πŸ˜‚πŸ‘Œ

🧑

Avatar
Azz 1y ago

Is the wallet balance public?

Avatar
PABLOF7z 1y ago

not by default; you can make it so if you wish

Avatar
Azz 1y ago

This is very cool

Avatar
Kush 1y ago

Go Bro… seamless!

Avatar
Louferlou 1y ago

Really cool.

It makes sense that custodial Zapping is handled by seamless ecash services directly integrated in nostr clients.

Of course the non custodial zapping is my favorite way to do this but the onboarding experience will be very cool with this system.

Avatar
Tom Jefferon 1y ago

Looks very cool. Is it a custodial wallet?

Avatar
Agi Choote 1y ago

E cash is always custodial

Avatar
mike 1y ago

That’s nuts

Avatar
Christina 1y ago

Avatar
Max 1y ago

So much bullishness that it hurts...

Avatar
47 1y ago

Amazing 🫑

Avatar
brugeman 1y ago

Amazing work Pablo!

Avatar
So Tachi 1y ago

How can I try it?

Avatar
gsovereignty 1y ago

This is hands down the most acceptable thing I have seen for at least 2-3 months

Avatar
0xtr 1y ago

Awesome stuff Pablo πŸ”₯ Now I need to set up my own mint...

Avatar
Arjen 1y ago

NOSTR, BATTERIES INCLUDED.

This is truly amazing! Now it's gonna be so easy to onboard friends and family!

nostr:note1qzye7ekjgq2gw6rr5v5vc3h6mf2043tshtnsmdk6vskx26dlgx5qskqz34

Avatar
pierre 1y ago

Ohh is this a new client?

Avatar
hzrd149 1y ago

Is this all using cashu tokens or is this compatible with lightning zaps?

Also is this using pubkey locked cashu tokens?

Avatar
hzrd149 1y ago

Also what are your thoughts on malicious nostr apps that steal everything as soon as you login?

Avatar
PABLOF7z 1y ago πŸ’¬ 1

yes, they are compatible -- with this, if you try to zap someone that doesn't have a cashu wallet announced it will do a regular bolt11 zap from the cashu balance

(how cool is that?!)

yes, these are pubkey-locked cashu tokens, locked to the pubkey of the npub with a "02" prefix for parity

so the proofs are actually unencrypted, anyone can verify them, but only the recipient can swap them

Avatar
hzrd149 1y ago

Ah, cool. So its the same cashu stuff me and nostr:npub1rw7hlhmgat6ur9zxcw40vweem49guv6530yk767j8xjpynv0y20q6qsl3w played around with :)

Avatar
Juraj 1y ago

what about receiving? does it use some kind of cashu<->lightning address gateway for zaps by people who use a client that does not understand cashu zaps?

Avatar
PABLOF7z 1y ago

Not yet, but I will probably write one; the beauty is that it doesn’t need to take custody at any time; you respond to an LNURL request with the mint’s bolt11, so it’s extremely lightweight

Avatar
Juraj 1y ago

I think there are open source gateways already, no need to write a new one. It should just be setup during onboarding in the profile.

Avatar
PABLOF7z 1y ago

They don’t do the new spec, they just send you unlocked ecash via a dm

Avatar
Juraj 1y ago

npub cash says they lock tokens to the public key.

https://npub.cash/

Avatar
tank 1y ago

Is there a writeup of how Cashu pubkey-locking works? nostr:npub12rv5lskctqxxs2c8rf2zlzc7xx3qpvzs3w4etgemauy9thegr43sf485vg

Avatar
Egge 1y ago

https://github.com/cashubtc/nuts/blob/main/11.md

Avatar
tank 1y ago

Ah, so the lock is initiated by the mint, not on the user’s Cashu client? Cause I was wondering how to prevent double spending.

Avatar
calle 1y ago

It's initiated by the sending user but it's enforced by the mint.

Avatar
tank 1y ago

Ah, so there is an http request from the sender to the mint before the nut zap. It sounded like magic to zap the ecash via nostr w/o any roundtrips to the lightning node.

Avatar
calle 1y ago

That only works for unlocked tokens. You can zap someone an unlocked but encrypted token and that should work without talking to the mint. However, then it becomes less publicly verifiable.

Avatar
tank 1y ago

Interesting. I was wondering why npub.cash doesn’t just send me an unlocked token via nostr DM when I receive a zap to my lightning address. I guess this is the UX that Pablo’s spec enables. But it also combines the Cashu wallet seed and the Nostr nsec as a single secret.

Avatar
Egge 1y ago

npub.cash does not do this, because I did not get to implement it yet.

Also it was always meant to be an API service that is more hidden from the user. Like giving a Lightning address to a Cashu wallet and claiming the nuts automatically

Avatar
tank 1y ago

Makes sense. Just my 2 sats worth… as a developer I’m more likely to integrate an API that delights me as a user first.

Avatar
Egge 1y ago

I understand that. What exactly is missing to make it a delight? DMs doesn’t count, as it’s not part of the API ^^

Avatar
tank 1y ago

I guess I’m defining API more broadly, as in β€œwhat UX does it enable”. Happy to connect to discuss in more depth if you’re open to it.

Avatar
α΄›Κœα΄‡ α΄…α΄‡α΄€α΄›Κœ ᴏꜰ α΄ΚŸα΄‡α΄‹α΄œ 1y ago

how is it locked? the server won't redeem it without a signature and the npub or can't spend it without a signature from the nsec

Avatar
PABLOF7z 1y ago

P2pk

Avatar
α΄›Κœα΄‡ α΄…α΄‡α΄€α΄›Κœ ᴏꜰ α΄ΚŸα΄‡α΄‹α΄œ 1y ago

so it's an on-chain utxo then?

there's the mint, and there's you

this isn't a blockchain protocol

Avatar
ciori 1y ago

Is the wallet creating a sort of hidden seed like other cashu wallets (so you are dependent on using the Highligther app), or is it only relying on your nostr pubkey? Were is the difference here? Apart from the "ecash token on relays" part.

Might be a stupid question, but I am still learning these kind of stuff.

Avatar
OT 1y ago

What's the capacity? Does that depend on the mint?

Avatar
DZC 1y ago

Afaik:

+ Nostr relays are functioning just as 'storage'.

+ Nostr npubs are functioning as pubkeys to allow receiving encrypted ecash.

+ Nostr event are functioning both as sending ecash and publishing the zap (public payment proof)

+ Mints functions don't change at all.

Avatar
U 1y ago

πŸ‘πŸ‘πŸ‘

Avatar
rfkill 1y ago

Biggest issue we have with ecash now is that there are two competing standards with incompatible formats. I prefer fedimint because I want the money federated across mulitple juristictions, but I guess cashu is easier to intergrate.

Avatar
DZC 1y ago

Afaiu, cashu's architecture is closer to nostr:

It's the user who decides which mints he wants to trust and store his sats on; there's no need for a federation of mints and trusting between them.

Simpler indeed.

We'll see how this space evolves.

Avatar
<old>cypherhoodlum 1y ago

Wen this on NDK nostr:nprofile1qqs04xzt6ldm9qhs0ctw0t58kf4z57umjzmjg6jywu0seadwtqqc75spzpmhxue69uhnzdps9enrw73wd9hszynhwden5te0wp6hyurvv4cxzeewv4eszynhwden5te0wfjkccte9enrw73wd9hsxv8qkt?

Avatar
PABLOF7z 1y ago

working on it right now

Avatar
<old>cypherhoodlum 1y ago

Fantastic 😎

Avatar
pailakapo 1y ago

the biggest hurdle for me for usability is the storage of the ecash tokens. Right now, if I delete the browser data on my phone I *may* be able to restore them.

Storing them on nostr is a huge UI win for me.

Wallets should be able to use this off-phone storage, and users should have this option to use this for all npub-protected ecash tokens.

Avatar
Leito 1y ago

Will it use the dm relays for the outbox model?

Avatar
PABLOF7z 1y ago

No, it shouldn’t; dm relays might guard REQs behind AUTH which you don’t want for public zaps; for private zaps you might, yeah

Avatar
Leito 1y ago

So it would just use the public inbox relays correct?

Avatar
Five 1y ago

I've been thinking about this ALL day! Crazy stoked!

Will implement as soon as this ships.

Avatar
ben 1y ago

code review: you can mutate a const or should that be var/let? πŸ˜…

Avatar
nout 1y ago

Const means you can't replace the object pointer by anything else, but you can still modify the contents of the object.

Avatar
Five 1y ago

This is the final piece of the puzzle.

As I implemented zaps in [SatShoot](https://satshoot.com) I quickly realized how much friction LN zaps present. Free banking and free markets will win and we will enjoy all the flourishing that comes with it.

nostr:nevent1qqsqpzvlvmfyq9y8dp36x2xvgmad5486c4ct4ecdkmdxgtr9dxl5r2qppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qgs04xzt6ldm9qhs0ctw0t58kf4z57umjzmjg6jywu0seadwtqqc75srqsqqqqqpcxkqqf

Avatar
falsefaucet 1y ago

When can we play

Avatar
Dan 1y ago

The biggest thing to happen to Nostr since NIP-57

Avatar
Raymon 1y ago

why? where's the difference to a custodian bank?

Avatar
Dan 1y ago

Vast majority of Nostr users use custodial lightning.

Today's custodial lightning offers no privacy and no censorship resistance.

Cashu offers strong privacy and censorship resistance.

For the minority of user who want to run their own lightning node, the option still exists. Cashu zaps address the reality that most do not.

Maybe one day a fully non-custodial solution will exist with great UX, but it doesn't today.

Avatar
Sourcenode 1y ago

WHOA

Avatar
πŸŠπŸ’Šβš‘οΈπŸŒ½ 1y ago

πŸ₯œπŸ”©πŸŒ°

Avatar
ĐaꝞꭡꞧuꞩ.β‚Ώ 🟠 1y ago πŸ’¬ 4

Ok, this is cool and all, but if you allow me to be a skeptic for 1 second: didn't you just create the #Bitcoin / #Nostr equivalent of a social credit system?

nostr:nevent1qqsqpzvlvmfyq9y8dp36x2xvgmad5486c4ct4ecdkmdxgtr9dxl5r2qppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qgs04xzt6ldm9qhs0ctw0t58kf4z57umjzmjg6jywu0seadwtqqc75srqsqqqqqpcxkqqf

Avatar
Alejandro 1y ago

πŸ‘€πŸ‘€πŸ‘€

Avatar
Kevin Ravensβ‚Ώerg ⚑️ ☁️ 1y ago

But it is custodied by a mint?

Avatar
/dev/fd0 1y ago

He forgot to mention that it involves 2 trusted third parties: mint and relay

Avatar
crany πŸ‘½πŸ§‘πŸ—Ώ 1y ago

minty fresh

Avatar
MiddleWay 1y ago

A cashu mint can create sats without locking actual Bitcoin (Fake Wallet https://github.com/cashubtc/nutshell/blob/f32099bce7ecca54338ebc1a551883fbdb883af2/cashu/lightning/fake.py#L31). So the zaps you receive may or may not be real, i.e. convertible to Lightning sats. So you should either zap those sats onwards, or withdraw to a real wallet asap (claim from the mint).

It this thing takes on and there will be lots and lots of such (potentially fake) sats on Nostr, this will inflate Bitcoin supply and damage it's reputation when many sats turn out unclaimable.

TLDR I hate this shitcoinery.

Avatar
PABLOF7z 1y ago

Free banking.

Avatar
τέχνη 1y ago

Banks being required to be FDIC insured was a good thing actually

Avatar
Ronin 1y ago

There is never inflation of bitcoin supply, either you have bitcoin or you don't.

Avatar
Nice and Kind Vic 1y ago

yes.

this is 100% by design and intentional for a sovereign mint operator.

the cashu spec doesnt require backing by sats, nor does it require the operator to fullfill outbound payment requests

Avatar
MiddleWay 1y ago

yes. shitcoinery

Avatar
PABLOF7z 1y ago

lol, both of you have custodial lightning for your zaps πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

Avatar
calle 1y ago

rekt

Avatar
crany πŸ‘½πŸ§‘πŸ—Ώ 1y ago

this should not consensus in the ways of Satoshi #ProofOfWork

Avatar
Hynek 1y ago

It’s actually nice plausible deniability

Avatar
ynniv 1y ago

I reserve "shitcoin" for bad faith efforts, and I think cashu is a legitimate effort to solve a hard problem. Still, it has serious flaws.

Avatar
GrumpyGardener 1y ago

I'm glad someone else see this shitcoinery.

Avatar
dwarner5522 1y ago

This isn't shitcoinery. It's a legit method to possibly evolve the ecosystem. With that said though, I agree that there needs to always be actual sats backing any ecash transaction. Also need redundancy in the ecash mints. Could there be a way maybe to require ecash mints be in clusters of 4. So that the (4) in the cluster are each clones of one another. With the sats being held in a multisig wallet, so that 2 of the 4 mint clones hold the same multisig key and the other 2 mint clones hold the other multisig key. I guess this would make it a separate layer 2 network completely separate from lightning though.

Avatar
Eluc 1y ago

How can you be sure that the sats in your WoS or Alby wallet are real before you spend them? How can you be sure that you will be able to spend your BTC on a centralized exchange tomorrow?

Same with mint, you are not sure, except you are not expected to keep any valuable amount on a mint, once you have 5000, 10000, 50'000sats on a mint, transfer it to Phoenix, Breez, Zeus or your full node with lightning, then when you have 100'000, 500'000, 1Msats on Lightning that you don't need for spending, swap it on-chain on a cold storage with key properly secured.

It's just a matter of habits and education.

Avatar
MiddleWay 1y ago

Sure, I don't use custodial wallets except SN (to lightning address), and I auto withdraw to my node. But at least Wos, Alby, etc are large centralized entities. A mint can be spun up easily by anyone, and they are mostly anonymous.

Avatar
Eluc 1y ago

I think at this point that we can stop using the argument of too big to fail, everyone use it so it's safe, they are large entities we can trust them (oops: MtGox, eBTC, FTX, Celsius, Credit Suisse bank!).

Anyone can decide which mint use and trust for a few sats of change. Use mint of a dev you like, a big company or associations, someone met at a local meetup, a friends, family or your own.

I respect that you want to stay as close as possible to the core Bitcoin experience and ecosystem, in the beggining Lightning was rejected as not real bitcoins, now only a few purist would argue that Lightning should not be used and everytjng must stay on-chain, maybe cashu will become part of the Bitcoin ecosystem and accepted by the majority for some use cases or maybe a better solution will be found on Lightning that avoid larger fee to manage liquidity before accepting your first 21 sats as zap without relying on a couple of big centralized entities.

Avatar
calle 1y ago

"at least they are large centralized entities"

Avatar
Dan 1y ago

Don't stain yourself jumping through logical hoops

Avatar
Weird Mike Jerkovic 1y ago

the real question:

can you opt out?

Avatar
PABLOF7z 1y ago

No, you opt-in.

People can still send you ecash due to the mere fact that you have an npub, you can always choose to not redeem them

Avatar
Luke 1y ago

Oh man, how can KYC & AML laws survive this going mainstream...

da
Rand 1y ago

i like choices/fees?

da
Rand 1y ago

disregard/dmyor t-y checking your links now/interesting pow Pablo

Avatar
Weird Mike Jerkovic 1y ago

thx for the answer, but I see that kind of problematic in some cases.

we all want nostr to grow, right? with that you will also get officials (politicians, CEOs etc.) on here that might be in a jurisdiction that doesn't allow them to take (let's call it) donations...

just my thoughts on this

Avatar
PABLOF7z 1y ago

You can’t prevent someone from sending you a check in the mail; you can simply not claim it.

People have been sending coinjoined bitcoins to states and legal entities for ever; there’s nothing they can do to avoid it, but they can ignore the money

Avatar
Weird Mike Jerkovic 1y ago

Yes and no.

I haven't seen a cheque in my whole life. Just heard about them πŸ˜†

How long can you cash in a cheque? How long can you redeem your zaps?

You have them, they are yours. You hold the only key to use them, and I don't think that it matters if you use them. I'm sure in some countries the possibility to redeem is also enough to make a taxable event out of it.

Don't get me wrong, I love your work and I'm amazed by the speed you are coming up with new stuff.

Avatar
Juraj 1y ago

first, no, I don't care about politicians being on Nostr.

second, there's no reason they could not come either, it's not illegal to receive money.

and third, let's not be pussies. We live a cypherpunk dream, let's enjoy it and not limit ourselves.

Avatar
Weird Mike Jerkovic 1y ago

first: you and a lot of others might not care about it, but if nostr is growing it will happen.

second: in some jurisdictions and positions it might be.

third: giving the choice to opt out is actually expanding the limits.

but what do I know...

Avatar
Hynek 1y ago

Is the code public?

Avatar
PABLOF7z 1y ago

Yeah, it’s on my GitHub; still tightly coupled to the highlighter codebase but I’ll be extracting it today into a nicely packaged thing

Avatar
Hynek 1y ago

Nice πŸ‘

Avatar
Raymon 1y ago

then primal is a lightning bank aka cashu mint 😁 hope you comply to European banking regulation...

Avatar
idsera 1y ago

Olha aΓ­ nostr:npub1z4nzyadcrntudneax24k679ut5u9ezhmyrsd78zavt79ydyjd9qspap5ff, teremos carteiras bitcoin bastando ter uma npub.

Avatar
Bruno 1y ago

🀯🀯🀯

Avatar
Luiza 1y ago

Se fossem carteiras de autocustΓ³dia, aΓ­ realmente seria muito massa. Do contrΓ‘rio, sendo carteiras custodiais, eles apenas estariam colocando-se em pΓ© de igualdade com o Primal. De qualquer forma, mesmo neste ΓΊltimo cenΓ‘rio, o Primal finalmente passaria a ter concorrentes Γ  altura.

Obrigada por me marcar, é sempre bom ficar por dentro das novidades que estão por vir. 😘

Avatar
Satlantis: Social Events 1y ago

πŸ‘πŸ½πŸ‘πŸ½πŸ‘πŸ½πŸ‘πŸ½

Avatar
Flix 1y ago

I don't fully understand it... but it looks very cool. Things are happening very fast on Nostr!

nostr:note1qzye7ekjgq2gw6rr5v5vc3h6mf2043tshtnsmdk6vskx26dlgx5qskqz34

Avatar
τέχνη 1y ago

nostr:npub1h0uj825jgcr9lzxyp37ehasuenq070707pj63je07n8mkcsg3u0qnsrwx8 this seems relevant to your β€œstamp” NIP

Avatar
it's me, real fake 1y ago

how long till zap for illicit purchases? Probably until gov comes down on the heads of cashapp and venmo dealers (so says SWIM). nostr will be ready tho... anticipating a very wild ride, fast adoption.

nostr:note1qzye7ekjgq2gw6rr5v5vc3h6mf2043tshtnsmdk6vskx26dlgx5qskqz34

Avatar
0xD43m0n 1y ago

Pablo, I really to develop at the pace you do, I really find everything you do innovative... The difference is I want to focus on privacy and security.

Avatar
Christian 1y ago

howfuckingcoolisthat!

nostr:note1qzye7ekjgq2gw6rr5v5vc3h6mf2043tshtnsmdk6vskx26dlgx5qskqz34

Avatar
jamw 1y ago

When how to do this is clear to me by way of well written, easy to understand documentation, expressed in normie language that everyone (including those new to #nostr) can understand then I and I am sure others will look into/adopt it.

Avatar
Newton 1y ago

I could not see the attachment. Could you explain it for me?

Avatar
Nunya Bidness 1y ago πŸ’¬ 19

I'll bet money most people are sleeping through this potential sea change.

nostr:note1qzye7ekjgq2gw6rr5v5vc3h6mf2043tshtnsmdk6vskx26dlgx5qskqz34

Avatar
xiangcai 1y ago

nostr:npub1l2vyh47mk2p0qlsku7hg0vn29faehy9hy34ygaclpn66ukqp3afqutajft: how fucking cool is 1 plural saps!!!

nostr:note1qzye7ekjgq2gw6rr5v5vc3h6mf2043tshtnsmdk6vskx26dlgx5qskqz34

Avatar
RABBINSTEIN 1y ago

Dynamically Encoded Ecash Zaps

DEEZ

Avatar
Brian 1y ago

Would zap splits still work?

Avatar
PABLOF7z 1y ago

Yea

Avatar
Brian 1y ago

Bullshit

Avatar
Big Barry Bitcoin 1y ago

Well, with Lightning you can split a single sat into msats. Not sure you can do that with any of the existing ecash mints.

Avatar
PABLOF7z 1y ago

You can do whatever unit you want. Msats are dumb anyway, but you could easily run a mint that uses them

Avatar
Brian 1y ago

Msats are a few decades ahead of their time

Avatar
Bitcoin principles 1y ago πŸ’¬ 1

I dont understand it. Can someone xplain pls?

Avatar
Newton 1y ago

Someone please explain this post by nostr:nprofile1qqs04xzt6ldm9qhs0ctw0t58kf4z57umjzmjg6jywu0seadwtqqc75spzpmhxue69uhnzdps9enrw73wd9hszynhwden5te0wp6hyurvv4cxzeewv4eszynhwden5te0wfjkccte9enrw73wd9hsxv8qkt for a layman like me so I understand what I should do. I'm still a 'legay' Alby user. πŸ˜ͺ

What to do with the new npub that Pablo mentions?

Avatar
Mayaβ™¨οΈπŸ«šπŸ₯₯ 1y ago

I’m not fully understand, yet, but Yess #nostronly #Bitcoinonly

Avatar
Kwanito 1y ago

I'm a bit lost πŸ™ƒ how does it work please ? Any videos or articles that you would recommend so that I can dig a bit please? πŸ™

8c
Brian Blackwell 1y ago

What app is this? I’m a beginner with Nostr and Damus.

Avatar
tigs 1y ago

Not an app really. He's just demoing using his local workstation to showcase the core principles.

The main thing to take away from this is that the dev work gone into this is pretty genius and done by one person. Has huge implications for Nostr going forward.

Avatar
Crash Test Dummy 1y ago

What is this eCash and what does it have to do with Bitcoin?

Avatar
venor 1y ago

nostr:npub1rxysxnjkhrmqd3ey73dp9n5y5yvyzcs64acc9g0k2epcpwwyya4spvhnp8 this on your radar?

Avatar
Crash Test Dummy 1y ago

Seems like a security issue waiting to happen.

Avatar
arvin 10mo ago πŸ’¬ 4

Is this possible from any clients today? Who supports ecash zaps? (cc nostr:nprofile1qqs9pk20ctv9srrg9vr354p03v0rrgsqkpggh2u45va77zz4mu5p6ccpzemhxue69uhk2er9dchxummnw3ezumrpdejz7qgkwaehxw309a5xjum59ehx7um5wghxcctwvshszrnhwden5te0dehhxtnvdakz7qrxnfk nostr:nprofile1qqs04xzt6ldm9qhs0ctw0t58kf4z57umjzmjg6jywu0seadwtqqc75spz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsz9mhwden5te0wfjkccte9ec8y6tdv9kzumn9wshszxnhwden5te0wpuhyctdd9jzuenfv96x5ctx9e3k7mf0dv4ph5)

nostr:nevent1qqsqpzvlvmfyq9y8dp36x2xvgmad5486c4ct4ecdkmdxgtr9dxl5r2qpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsyg86np9a0kajstc8u9h846rmy6320wdepdeydfz8w8cv7kh9sqv02gpsgqqqqqqsdln4hm

Avatar
ButtercupRoberts 10mo ago

Is it compatible with having other wallets in other clients? Or how does one need to proceed in order to try out?