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fluterbus
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What a time to be alive. We are live through the bifurcation of society. On one side we have a dying artificial construct of a legacy monetary system, rapidly turning into a dystopian nightmare in order to perpuate itself; on the other, we have a bright future enabled by the best money ever created: #Bitcoin, which will bring a Second Renaissance in all foundational fields of the society that embraces it: technology, science, health, commerce, culture, morals, belonging, faith, space exploration, are just some examples. The game theory is playing out well for the incumbent, as it attacks, among its many other atributes, one of the strongest forces and human emotions: Greed. This simple fact is already showing important cracks in the legacy systems ranks, which is not to be ignored: The Spot ETF approvals, e.g., which we now know happened against the will of the bureaucratic class (SEC & Co.). You may think its just a strategy to be able to kickoff a EO6102, but here lays the nuclear option that this may be another attack that will backfire right back at them. Once you taste the sweet pumps, that will inevitably come, this does something to you, ESPECIALLY when you belong to the most greedy bastardian class that have inhabited this planet: Wallstreet and The Fiat Banking Cartel

funny how you can ignore the fact that Jack & Parag were the biggest ideological censors here and think that they didn't have influence over their actions.

Imo, Elon has brought a couple of impactful improvements, especially the community notes and hugely reduced (not eliminated) the ideological censorship. He hasn't been able to do any meaningful thing about the bots though, which is still a plague on Twitter. I would see THAT more as a failure, but overall Twitter has had improvements, which doesn't mean its gonna last or be a deterrent to nostr. #Nostr is much bigger than Twitter since it could be the foundation of all communications & data storage

Replying to Avatar mutatrum

You can play with https://iancoleman.io/bip39/ to see what happens.

In short: without a passphrase, the 12/24 words are entropy and get hashed into your private key. With a passphrase, this is added to the entropy, creating a completely separate wallet.

The difference between the two is that the bip39 encoding (the 12/24 words) have a checksum built in, so if you make a mistake, it most likely will catch that. You can try this by changing one of the seed words if you generate a random seed.

The passphrase does not have a checksum, so any typo will create a completely new wallet.

Not the best explanation, but mainly a shill for Ian's great tool.

thanks to all

The winner was also the quickest answer: https://primal.net/e/note18j33h6tn0svywze0nmlgqdldltemcvwjjwcpzf97ytmkvsnltw4qhtmwlx

bc through that tool he posted I immediately understood the mechanism behind it. It also showed me how any mnemonic words are a representation. Great simple tool: https://iancoleman.io/bip39/

Other great answers here thanks everyone & until next bounty !

Replying to Avatar SatsMan

Here is what happens:

1. Generate the Seed Phrase:

• The wallet software generates a random 128-bit number (entropy).

• This entropy is passed through a hash function (SHA-256) to produce a checksum.

• The original entropy and a portion of the checksum are combined to create a 132-bit number.

• This 132-bit number is split into 12 groups of 11 bits each.

• Each group of 11 bits is mapped to a word from the BIP-39 word list, resulting in a 12-word seed phrase.

2. Convert Seed Phrase to Seed:

• The 12-word seed phrase is converted into a binary seed using a key stretching function called PBKDF2 (Password-Based Key Derivation Function 2).

• The 12-word seed phrase is used as the input password for PBKDF2, and “mnemonic” is used as the salt.

• The PBKDF2 function runs 2048 iterations of HMAC-SHA512, producing a 512-bit seed.

3. Add the Passphrase:

• The passphrase (if provided) is concatenated with the 12-word seed phrase to form a new “mnemonic + passphrase” string.

• This combined string is again fed into the PBKDF2 function, with the same salt (“mnemonic”).

• PBKDF2 runs another 2048 iterations of HMAC-SHA512, generating a new 512-bit seed.

4. Derive the Master Key:

• The 512-bit seed is used as the input to HMAC-SHA512, generating a master private key and a master chain code.

• These are used to create a hierarchical deterministic (HD) wallet structure, according to BIP-32.

5. Generate Child Keys:

• From the master private key and master chain code, child private keys and chain codes are derived for different account levels (e.g., account 0, account 1).

• Each private key corresponds to a Bitcoin address.

By adding a passphrase, you’re effectively creating an entirely different seed, which results in a completely different set of keys and addresses. This additional layer of security is sometimes referred to as a “13th word” or a “seed extension.”

In short;

1. Generate entropy (random 128-bit number).

2. Convert entropy to a mnemonic seed phrase using the BIP-39 standard.

3. Use PBKDF2 with the mnemonic seed phrase and passphrase to create a 512-bit seed.

4. Derive master private key and chain code using HMAC-SHA512.

5. Generate child keys and addresses using BIP-32. 🎯🙌🫡

seems like I can't send. Did you set up a wallet? you can also drop me a lnd address if you like

Replying to Avatar SatsMan

Here is what happens:

1. Generate the Seed Phrase:

• The wallet software generates a random 128-bit number (entropy).

• This entropy is passed through a hash function (SHA-256) to produce a checksum.

• The original entropy and a portion of the checksum are combined to create a 132-bit number.

• This 132-bit number is split into 12 groups of 11 bits each.

• Each group of 11 bits is mapped to a word from the BIP-39 word list, resulting in a 12-word seed phrase.

2. Convert Seed Phrase to Seed:

• The 12-word seed phrase is converted into a binary seed using a key stretching function called PBKDF2 (Password-Based Key Derivation Function 2).

• The 12-word seed phrase is used as the input password for PBKDF2, and “mnemonic” is used as the salt.

• The PBKDF2 function runs 2048 iterations of HMAC-SHA512, producing a 512-bit seed.

3. Add the Passphrase:

• The passphrase (if provided) is concatenated with the 12-word seed phrase to form a new “mnemonic + passphrase” string.

• This combined string is again fed into the PBKDF2 function, with the same salt (“mnemonic”).

• PBKDF2 runs another 2048 iterations of HMAC-SHA512, generating a new 512-bit seed.

4. Derive the Master Key:

• The 512-bit seed is used as the input to HMAC-SHA512, generating a master private key and a master chain code.

• These are used to create a hierarchical deterministic (HD) wallet structure, according to BIP-32.

5. Generate Child Keys:

• From the master private key and master chain code, child private keys and chain codes are derived for different account levels (e.g., account 0, account 1).

• Each private key corresponds to a Bitcoin address.

By adding a passphrase, you’re effectively creating an entirely different seed, which results in a completely different set of keys and addresses. This additional layer of security is sometimes referred to as a “13th word” or a “seed extension.”

In short;

1. Generate entropy (random 128-bit number).

2. Convert entropy to a mnemonic seed phrase using the BIP-39 standard.

3. Use PBKDF2 with the mnemonic seed phrase and passphrase to create a 512-bit seed.

4. Derive master private key and chain code using HMAC-SHA512.

5. Generate child keys and addresses using BIP-32. 🎯🙌🫡

nice explanation, thanks. I gave the price away a couple hours ago but I'll send you a mini 1k prize to you for the effort

Done. And 5k for you for your altruism

yeah, well said. Lets see if nostr becomes the new reputation platform. Interesting developments happening thats for sure

Replying to Avatar Stephan Livera

nostr:npub1az9xj85cmxv8e9j9y80lvqp97crsqdu2fpu3srwthd99qfu9qsgstam8y8 of nostr:npub1wu4aye7ll0lnrrg638e90sehzsgpzx5t39t3mwl05aa0d0ap08esdz3vw0 on Bitcoin Ossification and Changes SLP582 rejoins me to talk about attitudes on Bitcoin development and consensus changes. We discuss how “ossification” is commonly thrown around, but maybe there is a better term.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccu6Chk3Xbg

yes sir, finally some episode I can relate with again :)

Replying to Avatar mutatrum

You can play with https://iancoleman.io/bip39/ to see what happens.

In short: without a passphrase, the 12/24 words are entropy and get hashed into your private key. With a passphrase, this is added to the entropy, creating a completely separate wallet.

The difference between the two is that the bip39 encoding (the 12/24 words) have a checksum built in, so if you make a mistake, it most likely will catch that. You can try this by changing one of the seed words if you generate a random seed.

The passphrase does not have a checksum, so any typo will create a completely new wallet.

Not the best explanation, but mainly a shill for Ian's great tool.

I think you explanation is what I needed. This tool goes further than a thousand words for me !

Thanks brother.

what you prefer, Zap or lightning address ?

ok I got a #bitcoin bounty, I'll zap directly 10.000 sats to the first best answer to this question:

When you create a wallet of, lets say 12 word seed, and ad a passphrase to it, what happens really in the background?

I'm not a programmer, but I'd like to see the real thing in the workings when this happens, if you know what I mean. I know that you create a whole new wallet by adding the passphrase, but what happens with the code? what does the Bitcoin software do when one generates a seed + passphrase.

the answer can also be a good explanatory video or article.

Thanks for your time ! Btw you can verify my history that I always pay when promised

ok lets start using #nostr for real now!

I've been addicted to twitter for the last year & I finally woke up to the fact after being banned for a day by the algo for "suspicious activity" and/or "spamming", when in reality I was denouncing spam from some shitcoiner bot accounts that crowded my posts.

same as with #bitcoin, you have to get burned on the stove to wake up & move your ass.

Also, twitter is crowded by wannabe influencers & that feels like less signal