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Thethird0cnzo
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Sometimes I wonder what would happen if everyone in the world meditated at the same time. πŸ‘€πŸ’―πŸ§˜πŸ½ Would we create a spirit bomb or something??? Also: Check out my bookmarks. Do it. I'm a decent sketch artist. Lmk if you need an idea drawn or sketched out! πŸ™πŸ½πŸ»πŸŒ²πŸ€™πŸ½ Gaslighter... You're welcome. πŸ»πŸ’―πŸ’™πŸ˜ˆ @npub1adu74kjqt2hug9d3l304ccrhj3sj8az3zuha9uyrz6jjapukrxqsv0ktla @npub10xnmtm0f3atrmxgv4ljc3gh777npkfkpgucm5rs229ynrn8yrt7s7nunae Don't let deceivences appearance you.

Buenos dias πŸ€™πŸ½πŸ’―πŸ»πŸ«‘

Replying to Avatar jimmysong

# Halving Fee Chaos

The Bitcoin halving is an anticipated event, one of those Bitcoin holidays that happen every once in a while. Along with Soft Fork Activation and various financial instrument introduction days, it's one of those not-quite-predictable days that occur every few years which give Bitcoiners reason to pay attention and mainstream media to speculate.

This year's halving was much anticipated, as halvings usually are, but we had a bit of an incident that requires some further explanation. The block subsidy decreased from 6.25 BTC to 3.125 BTC on block 840,000 as expected, but what wasn't expected was the 37.626 BTC in fees that came along with it. To give some context, that's easily the highest ratio of fees to block subsidy that Bitcoin has *ever* had. [One transaction](https://mempool.space/tx/152b928e97bb9e874da1bd4abdf766ae0cdc7a2f260dad5542967cb414c58489) paid nearly 8 BTC in fees by itself.

## More Fees

It wasn't just block 840,000 that had high fees, over the next 5 blocks, we had fees of 4.486, 6.99, 16.068, 24.008 and 29.821 BTC respectively. The fees are the highest it's ever been. This situation in Bitcoin is unprecedented.

Up to this point in Bitcoin's history a block whose fees were higher than block subsidy were pretty rare. There were a few in the 50 and 25 BTC eras, but these were mistakes by the user (usually forgetting to put in a change address) and almost all of the fee came from a single error transaction. In the 12.5 BTC subsidy era, there were a few transactions toward the end of 2017 when the cumulative fees exceeded the 12.5 subsidy. In the just-ended 6.25 BTC subsidy era, there were many blocks during the ordinals craze which exceeded the 6.25 BTC subsidy.

Still, these were relatively rare, and most blocks even in the most recently completed era mostly didn't exceeded 1.5 BTC. Yet in this new era of 3.125 BTC subsidy, every single block as of this writing (block 840018) has had fees exceed the subsidy, some by many multiples. So what happened? Why was the halving block getting so much in fees?

## Runes

The reason has to do with a new protocol called Runes. It's yet another colored coins protocol on top of Bitcoin that Casey Rodarmor designed back in [September of 2023](https://rodarmor.com/blog/runes/). The main idea is to allow coin issuance on Bitcoin that uses the UTXO set natively.

Now to back up a bit, colored coins have been around for a long time. The main idea is that you can "color" certain Bitcoin transaction outputs as meaning something in addition to the Bitcoin amount in the output. It could be another "asset" and issued as a token. The first implementation of such a protocol happened 11 *years* ago in 2013 and there have been many attempts since, including MasterCoin (renamed Omni), CounterParty, and more recently, RGB, Taro Assets and BRC-20.

As Rodarmor states in his blog, his motivation for making another protocol is to bring some of the asset issuing from other chains to Bitcoin. To make the launch of this protocol more interesting, Rodarmor decided to start the issuance on block 840,000, leading to the chaos we saw.

## Simplification vs Game Theory

Casey Rodarmor is also the creator of ordinals, and he took one of the concepts, which was to name assets using the capital latin alphabet on Runes. This is a normal fine choice, but what happens when there's a conflict? If two assets have the same name, how do we distinguish between them?

To simplify things, the protocol just looks up what assets exist already and if the name conflicts with something that exists, then the new asset isn't issued. This indeed simplifies the client and gives a global unique name to each asset. Unfortunately, it also makes for some terrible incentives.

## Sniping Asset Issuance

The first incentive problem is that if the transaction issuing the asset is sent out to the Bitcoin mempool, then as that transaction is gossiped to nodes around the network, other observers can snipe the name by getting the transaction in earlier.

Now "earlier" in Bitcoin is a strict concept. Blocks are ordered and transactions within a block are ordered. Whichever comes first gets the symbol and the asset issuance. But if you want to squat on a good symbol name, you can just look for mempool transactions that are attempting to create a new asset and create your own with a bigger fee. That's the essence of sniping.

What's really terrible about a situation like this is that *both* transactions will likely go into the block, but only the first will successfully issue the asset. The second will not issue the asset but *still pay the fee*.

Miners generally order transactions by fee rate, so a higher fee likely means that they'll get to issue the asset. I say likely, because there's a second incentive problem here I'll discuss later. But game-theoretically, both participants are incentivized to increase fees continually to one-up each other. The dynamic is similar to the [One Dollar Auction](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_auction), where participants end up making rational choices, but end up with an irrational result (like paying $1.50 for $1). Every loser pays lots in fees for nothing.

## Second order Game Theory

Now given this first-order incentive playing out, it's not a surprise that a lot of issuers purposefully put in a very high fee initially to discourage anyone from trying to snipe the symbol. After all, if your sniping attempt fails, then you lose out on the fees you tried to snipe with. There's also a significant uptick in the usage of RBF for this reason, so that you have the option to one-up the sniper and the sniper to do the same to the issuer.

Note that RBF isn't useful here to *get out* of paying the fee, as a replacement transaction has to pay more than the previous transaction in fees. Either way, the miner ends up with the fees.

Now back to the miner's role. The miner can, if it so desires, give preference to the *lower* fee transaction by including it earlier in the block. Indeed, the incentive is to give miners off-band fees if possible to order transactions in such a way as to win by not revealing how much you've paid. Miners in this protocol have a lot of leverage.

## Conclusion

Runes have resulted in some really high fees, though it's hard to know if the design was intentional or unintentional. What we do know is that Runes have been hyped up for the last few months and have been anticipated for a while, and certainly being one of the first assets issued under the protocol has some marketing value for the eventual goal of getting them listed on an exchange.

Sadly, in addition to the normal scamming of altcoins being completely centralized, there is a deeper cost in terms of block space congestion, where fees of 1000 sats/vbyte are currently not enough to get into certain blocks. The Runes asset issuance has overridden almost every other use case at the moment.

That said, the current rate of Runes issuance is completely unsustainable. Just in the first 18 blocks, there's been over $20M in fees spent, most of that in Runes issuance. At this rate, Runes issuers would be spending $150M a day or $1B a week. I honestly can't see them doing this for much longer than a month or two. In the meantime, it must be great to be a miner finding these blocks.

So you're saying.... My nerdminer has a chance??? πŸ‘€πŸ‘€πŸ‘€

πŸ˜πŸ€™πŸ½πŸ’―πŸ»πŸ™πŸ½πŸ₯³πŸ₯‚πŸΊπŸŽ‡πŸŽ†πŸš€βœŒπŸ½πŸ€ͺ😁

Yup! I was very happy! We'll get there again soon enough I'm sure. πŸ’―πŸ™πŸ½πŸ€™πŸ½πŸ»

Btw happy halving!!!!!! Cheers! nostr:npub1hv64t0jlg94p0tpq6zc8mrc5kyfhzwwn8fxp6m45jwdn9pmfs53q0yrjjm !!! Happy to follow you here on #nostr

Buenas noches πŸ€™πŸ½πŸ’―πŸ»πŸ₯³

Replying to Avatar Bored Satoshi

Bitcoin has very limited blockspace. It is not meant for people transferring 100s of $. It's meant for much larger transactions. The only way you'll transact on Bitcoin is if the value you get out of this transaction is worth more than the fees you're paying.

So when the Bitcoin network is used to buy 100 BTC worth of Oil from the UAE, they do not care/about the $100 transaction fees.

1. We need transactions to generate enough revenue for the miners. (Pls tell me if you disagree on this). Else, miners cannot be profitable and will move on to doing other things. Then Bitcoin mining will become a lot cheaper and the price will spiral down with many 51% attacks.

2. There isn't enough demand for the blockspace by pure transactors alone right now. But there is demand for other speculative assets that are put on Bitcoin. Thus, there are more transactions happening right now to create and buy these useless things. a good thing.

3. Anything can be bought and sold using bitcoin. It is similar to buying and selling drugs using Bitcoin, are we against it? Are we against Russians using Bitcoin? No. Why are you against people gambling on Bitcoin? It is a free network.

4. Gambling is not Bitcoin's problem to solve. Trading these useless things is a zero-sum game. People will most likely lose their bitcoins. It needs to be solved by us as a community. We should be against gambling on any chain.

5. With these things in mind, we should things that are valuable enough to justify $1000 transactions. Whether it is an L2 block that amortizes transaction fees among a lot of people and settles on Bitcoin or someone that wants to put an image on Bitcoin for history to remember. It should be allowed.

To your point, we shouldnt keep the fees low because we want people from third world countries to transact on Bitcoin. We should scale Bitcoin to accommodate all of their transactions. Scaling is done by building L2s that are more valuable than trading runes or ordinals. So the value you generate by enabling thousands of people to use Bitcoin will be greater than the mere $500 transaction fees.

As for your first point. That's the first time I've had it so well explained. That makes sense! Fees need to be high enough to maintain a delicate balance of mining profitability so as to avoid a cheap 51% takeover!!! Thx for that! Learned something today! Very nice! πŸ’―πŸ™πŸ½βœŠπŸ½πŸ«‘ #pleb

Replying to Avatar Bored Satoshi

Bitcoin has very limited blockspace. It is not meant for people transferring 100s of $. It's meant for much larger transactions. The only way you'll transact on Bitcoin is if the value you get out of this transaction is worth more than the fees you're paying.

So when the Bitcoin network is used to buy 100 BTC worth of Oil from the UAE, they do not care/about the $100 transaction fees.

1. We need transactions to generate enough revenue for the miners. (Pls tell me if you disagree on this). Else, miners cannot be profitable and will move on to doing other things. Then Bitcoin mining will become a lot cheaper and the price will spiral down with many 51% attacks.

2. There isn't enough demand for the blockspace by pure transactors alone right now. But there is demand for other speculative assets that are put on Bitcoin. Thus, there are more transactions happening right now to create and buy these useless things. a good thing.

3. Anything can be bought and sold using bitcoin. It is similar to buying and selling drugs using Bitcoin, are we against it? Are we against Russians using Bitcoin? No. Why are you against people gambling on Bitcoin? It is a free network.

4. Gambling is not Bitcoin's problem to solve. Trading these useless things is a zero-sum game. People will most likely lose their bitcoins. It needs to be solved by us as a community. We should be against gambling on any chain.

5. With these things in mind, we should things that are valuable enough to justify $1000 transactions. Whether it is an L2 block that amortizes transaction fees among a lot of people and settles on Bitcoin or someone that wants to put an image on Bitcoin for history to remember. It should be allowed.

To your point, we shouldnt keep the fees low because we want people from third world countries to transact on Bitcoin. We should scale Bitcoin to accommodate all of their transactions. Scaling is done by building L2s that are more valuable than trading runes or ordinals. So the value you generate by enabling thousands of people to use Bitcoin will be greater than the mere $500 transaction fees.

I like everything you said. I'll need to look more into all of your 5 points to give you a specific response.

As for your first question it makes sense that fees would need to be high enough to incentivize mining profitability. Idk what the exact fee % range should be but miners should of course be rewarded. That makes sense. The free market will figure this out I'm sure.

Yet I don't know enough about all this so I hope more educated people will answer your questions. πŸ™πŸ½

For example I'm not sure if the block space is so low that ordinals or runes need to fill up empty space. Could be true... Could not... I just don't know. I'll take word for now.

During the past bear market many people argued this point and said ordinals helped maintain mining fees by filling up block space or something like that. I guess that could make sense. But yet again. I just don't know.

As for gambling I think people should do whatever they want. It's their money. And like you said. They will probably lose it all unfortunately. I don't gamble but if it's not my money it's not my problem. It's a free market.

As for l2 solutions absolutely. L2's like lightning and liquid or fedimints and all that stuff will most definitely solve third world fee problems.

The problem is that it's hard for most people to get their heads around all of this...

Your right l2's make it easy. But it ain't easy to learn atm.

by the time bitcoiners solved all of this, the fee charges might have already caused a decent of damage to 3rd world people and people living day to day. That's probably the worst of it. I barely started using l2's and I didn't learn it overnight. Imagine someone who has barely learned Bitcoin in El Salvador or Argentina or something.

Idk. Again just learning here like everyone else. I didn't know what runes where until recently.

Buenos dias πŸ€™πŸ½πŸ’―

Hell yea! The victors!!!!

Buenas noches πŸ€™πŸ½πŸ’―βœŠπŸ½πŸ»

I don't know enough about ordinals or runes to say anything with πŸ’― certainty.

Whatever is best for Bitcoin core/ Bitcoin network should be prioritized imo.

Yet bitcoin being about rules and not rulers...

if the rules allow it then one can't complain at how the rules are used.

As for the network congestion and high fees... eventually fees work themselves out in the long run probably. Yet I do understand frustrations when fees are super high because there are a bunch of jpegs trying to squeeze into BTC...

So In short... People should do whatever they want if the rules allow it even if I might disagree with the high fees due to runes or ordinals.

I've had to pay high btc fees for things I wasn't involved with for example... Wasn't fun but it's not against the rules.

I hope people try to listen to everyone's concerns! There are people in third world countries trying to make ends meet and then there are ordinals and runes trying to innovative and sometimes just trying to make a quick profit... We should carefully consider our priorities! We are a global network after all! πŸ™πŸ½πŸ™πŸ½πŸ™πŸ½πŸ™πŸ½

I look forward to the answers!

That's us bitcoiners challenging 99.9% of the world during the halving!!!! Oh YEEEE!!! πŸ€™πŸ½πŸ»πŸš€πŸŽ†πŸŽ‡πŸ₯‚πŸ₯‚πŸΊπŸ«‘πŸ’―

Like bad bad fucked? or drunk/high fucked?

It'll be the meta verse!!! Straight up vr!!! TRON STYLE! Oh YEEEE!!!