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One thought is that the answer is never - but then by the same logic it’s hard to say that rear lines military folk who for example were pressed into service are ever ethical targets either.

unclebobmartin 2y ago

To the extent that there are rules for warfare, those rules demand that civilians are never valid _targets_. Those same rules also demand that valid military targets are not made invalid by nearby civilians. The reasoning for that second demand is terrifyingly obvious. If civilians could be used to invalidate a target, then every warring faction _would use_ civilians to protect their most valued military assets.

As for the whether conscription is ethical, it is easy to understand that a society that cannot defend itself will not survive. Thus, the cost of citizenship is the possibility of conscription.

From: (mark) at 11/03 16:40

> One thought is that the answer is never - but then by the same logic it’s hard to say that rear lines military folk who for example were pressed into service are ever ethical targets either.

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mark tyler 2y ago

Yeah that’s true. Some civilian deaths may be part of mitigating the incentive to do what Hamas has done - using a population as a human shield.

Here are a few groups of civilians: people who vote indicating support of the actions of the military you’re fighting, people who just pay taxes, people who express online support of the military actions, people who spend half their day building weapons for sending to the front line, people who volunteer to drive those weapons to the front line, people who move into the settlements that are encroaching on your land.

Other thoughts…

Sometimes people talk as though society has an interest apart from those of its constituents. But I think we are assuming that “society not surviving” means the people in question are subjugated to some power that they would have been willing to fight against if they had been able to coordinate well enough - and in that context conscription is justified because it solves that human coordination problem.

Yeah I’d like to see a culture of people that don’t need or use it. Maybe we don’t these days with good neighbors.. it is nerve wracking to consider trying though. Freedom tech may help with lowering the benefit to a victorious invader.. maybe..