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nostr:nevent1qqszgxaqs0pq4zacxns863kjfksawf35u0ef6x053h9funvxq50cqecpzdmhxue69uhk7enxvd5xz6tw9ec82c30qgspj28wx4v02n33vnvp6fkrtcfrcf2t4cfgx4xhv97hlkrz6uxe52crqsqqqqqpqgumju

What is the benefit of email over a secure chat?

In email, you have no guarantee how the other smtp servers will handle your mail. You can encrypt your email with PGP, but it requires from the other side to setup keys. You can encrypt with a password, but you have to send a password somewhere... Or you can own the sender and receiver mailboxes, and then you can make sure it is safe.

So sending securely on email is hard.

I guess the only benefit of email is, that you can have threads under subjects, therefore you have grouped messages. It is better organized then to do everything in 1 chat.

Is there any other?

GM! ☕️

#grownostr #plebchain #coffeechain #asknostr

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Discussion

pretty much what you said is i. I can't think of anything else other than emails are like mail IRL so each one is self contained which is basically a rewording of what you already said. 🤣

chats are throw-away little snippets of conversation and not really conducive to long writing, I'd add. personally I always set them to auto delete in a week.

(I like having both of these ways because they both have a purpose and appropriate uses based on what is being discussed. I also don't really want my email mixed with Nostr because I'd rather not have everything in one system.)

What if I tell you that real life is also just 1 big chat 😂

you just told me nothing.

real life is not a chat app. real life chatting is in person, only.

I did not say app...

Real life talking is not grouped under subjects, do not happen in separate threads. They just happen. You can group them in head, but they at the end happen continously like one chat history 😁

you still said nothing. I'm a 55 year old lay Zen monk (2 ordinations). know your audience.

you're smarter than this.

🙏😇

I'm sorry nostr:nprofile1qqspj28wx4v02n33vnvp6fkrtcfrcf2t4cfgx4xhv97hlkrz6uxe52cppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qyg8wumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnddakj7qgawaehxw309ahx7um5wghx6at5d9h8jampd3kx2apwvdhk6tczc730m

that should have read: fuck Dale stop sounding so arrogant. 😇🤝

No problem. PV 🤙

mike 1y ago

Yes, it's a protocol, not a company or platform, the same as NOSTR.

You don't need permission to use it, and nobody can stop you.

Caveats: Individual mail providers can ban you and spam filters may block you and encryption is limited.

Plus privacy because the lack of encryption. But then does it worth to fix email, or would it be better to transition to something that is already working?

mike 1y ago

Like NOSTR?

I guess one way or another yes.

It could keep the "not company" and decentralized, permissionless feature of it.

Or it can be only the keystore for emails. So it would be so much easier to find the keys to encrypt emails to nostr users. Also it could be so much easier to generate these keys.

mike 1y ago

You can add layers to a protocol definition, but it's nearly impossible to "fix" a protocol.

Email is what it is, you've been able to layer on PGP encryption since its inception in 1991, but most people don't.

So generally it's better to start with a protocol that is built from scratch with the features you want.

I would definitely not change the smtp protocol. I would not even touch it. I would only make an app that makes it easy to encrypt.

But definitely easier if the protocol itself contains the security and privacy features you want.

But there is also the power of already established protocols, that many use.

Maybe the a good way is to somehow have both. Have a bridge, that gives easy access to the new thing via the old, so the transition can be seamless.

GM.

I guess the benefit of email is that it has become an agnostic protocol that can interact with almost any client?

Ideally you want to send a mail that opens as a gateway into a secure chat on any mail client and then removes the whole chat (cleaning up unnecessary and sensitive data), while leaving behind the key notes you wanted to chat about 😁

Combine security (temporary chat channel) through usability (remove need to install yet another client).

Not that this is feasible, but I didn't read that requirement 🤭

🫡

How about privacy? Google can read all emails sent and received through their smtp. So it does not matter if you have gmail account, they still can collect data on you.

That is the (far fetched and pure fictional) idea: you send a portal. Like a door to the receiver. GMail f.e. can see the door, but not what goes on behind the door.

To see what goes on, receiver opens the door ( like a PWA URL?) Interacts through that portal, via encrypted channel... Afterwards closes the door... (Remove all temporary files and PWA history).

The PWA is where your magic happens, but for the receiver it is just like getting a mail, only that the back and forth is in the channel.

If you can have the service send a recap with the elements you want to keep as a follow up mail(non sensitive data, just as a reminder,... Meeting notes like)

Be aware, I just have imagination, not skills,... Hence the possibly moronic takes 🤣🤭😅

Interesting concept. 🤙

Maybe a question:

How do you make sure your email recipient opens the "door" and not google?

A key comes to mind, but what is then the key🤔

It might strongly depend on way of communication and what is being communicated 🧐

Might be overthinking this, but on one hand make it to simple and it becomes unprotected, make it too hard and no-one (at least common user) wants to use it (and some might be more willing, but that is only half of the communication channel).

The question might be than rather to make the communication unique : only one can open door, so it is a 1 on 1. This way, ok someone else can open, but what is their gain? Getting info is the obvious one, but that most often is most valuable if harvested without knowing 🤔

The harvest of info by mail service is automated, I would worry more about Google scraping Chrome than opening portal in name of receiver.

The real deal is avoiding social hacking/phishing. F.e. avoiding that the sender is the abuser 🧐, sending portal to extract info/secrets. So how does the receiver know the one on the other side of the portal is whom they say they are.

Ok I am spiraling out now 🤣😅

Proton mail if you send password encrypted mail, it just sends a link to the receiver, and the user can open the link, type password, and see the content. This link can also expire after a certain time.

TNStacker 1y ago

GM ⚡☕🧡💜

Stack Sats and stay humble