No, you are just saying “here is an example of x in y”. That is not causal. There are plenty of examples of “x in z”.

The reason innovation doesn’t reduce labor hours is because people prefer to work the same amount or more to get more when technology improves. We don’t innovate to cut back labor. We innovate to make our lives better. The amount we work is only one factor.

I asked for examples of societies where humans AND animals are treated well and you totally ignored the human part and listed societies without enough technology to meaningfully abuse animals instead.

Have you ever seen how native americans fish now that they have modern technology? They string nets across the river and shoot whales with 50 cals. Just because they say thank you to mother nature afterwards doesn’t make it better.

Abuse of animals and humans happens because there is shitty people, not because of the economic system.

You are making my point for me when bringing up vegans and your family. You realize vegans and your family exist in a capitalistic society right? Did capitalism cause good people to be good or do only examples of bad count?

Capitalism is an economic system, not a moral one. You keep insisting that because immorality occurs in capitalism, capitalism is the cause.

I can look at any society (the ones you listed as your examples of where animals are treated well) and there will be immorality, regardless of the economic system in place.

As far as your fishing example, being grateful DOES have everything to with it. Also, not taking more than is needed, being sustainable. You think you are better than Native American people from 1000 years ago because you can exploit for profit? Do you honestly think they had no ability to exploit if the desire was there? Goddamn exceptionalism is thick in here. You can’t even fathom a world without profit because you are so fucking indoctrinated. Pull your finger out of your ass.

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Being grateful when being sustainable is good. But driving up to a whale in a motor boat, spearing it with a spear, and then shooting it with a 50 cal, or netting a whole river of salmon is either wrong or not. Being grateful and performing a ritual afterwords does not undo that.

I didn’t say anything about being better now. I am saying that being less technologically advanced means they were more limited in thier ability to do harm. They did “exploit”. Just not as effectively. That is what technology enables. They didn’t have the technology to do the wrongs that we have today.

Native Americans are just as susceptible to moral failure as anyone else.

We aren’t better. We are the same.

Our moral progress has not kept up with our technological or economic progress. That is a moral failng, not a technological or economic one.

I agree with your first paragraph.

Second paragraph is pure speculation based on your psychology and experiences…hence why I said you have a bad case of “exceptionalism”.

Yes Native Americans were/are susceptible to immoral behavior…although they were all but completely victims to irradiation and assimilation by capitalists.

Agree wholeheartedly with last paragraph, but you do still fail to see that capitalism is derived from and a means to the worst of our immoral abilities.