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Again back to definitions and meaning you guys need to agree on a dictionary first and interpretation of lol

hey I don't think so actually.

Words *already mean something.

to use the example of our last little argument, if I send someone a letter or something to your address, nobody calls that "tracing the letter"

The sender knowing where something goes isn't the definition of "tracing"

So when STN comes along and is like "oh well actually that IS tracing because reason"

No.

The word doesn't mean that. It isn't subjective and we don't have to reach an agreement on definitions before I tell him hes full of shit.

if we have to agree first, then its all like peoples pronouns. "i identify this word as this" and "acknowledge my different interpretation"

we dont want to go there.

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Discussion

2Pac 6mo ago

I can agree with the logic of knowing where you send something is not tracing. Following it to destination beyond where you sent it would be tracing.

2Pac 6mo ago

I guess what I mean is words can have multiple definitions and meaning depending on context and culture which can lead to miscommunication.

Hanshan 6mo ago

thats just obvious

the point here tho is that prior consensus about definitions shouldn't be necessary

Super Testnet 6mo ago

I say that identifying the destination of your own coins counts as tracing. You may think it doesn't, that's fine. But focusing on whether it technically counts as tracing or not is missing the point, which is: it is bad for receiver privacy for the sender to learn that info. Monero gives that info to the sender for free. Lightning doesn't. That's a point in LN's favor.

Hanshan 6mo ago

then I suggest you frame the problem in those terms since they actually communicate what the real risk is to the reader.

calling it something that it isn't communicates something different.

of course I understand that saying

"its bad for receiver privacy that the sender knows the destination of their payment" isnt as fun as saying "its bad monero is traceable"

but those two statements are not equivalent.

kidwarp 6mo ago

For what I gather in the incognito bust the cex reported him to the Feds for the amount of money he was receiving with out being able to show proof of income…

After that the Feds only traced bitcoin and what was deposited into the cex…

The Feds have not bought drugs with bitcoin…

The Feds watched the btc get washed to xmr and saw it deposited in the cex… (was he really swapping btc straight to an exchange addy or vice versa?)

Hanshan 6mo ago

it looks like their could have been a wallet between the swap and the CEX,

but he still sent it as soon as he could

which makes timing analysis possible.

the fbi agents testimony say they bought drugs off incognito at least 5 times.