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So, he's saying that men can band their families together with other families, to form a tribe, village, state, etc., but all property remains private and no one can be expected to excersize less control over his property than the group does because his rights come first, both in time and in weight.

This would also require that he can revoke the common use of his property, for instance.

Nobody 1y ago

Yeah, I caught that. It then follows that they can choose to create a standing army and pay for it, or trust in God alone for protection.

It stands that there is no obligation on any family to provide for others. Although, first the law and then Jesus made it obvious we should be willing to aid those within our community who are in need, even though we are not obliged.

It also stands that we can choose to associate with whom we desire and disassociate with those who go against collective desires. After all we are our own property, not forced to do more than protect and provide for that which we have brought into existence (family).

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Laeserin 1y ago

Yes.

What we are not supposed to do is try to stay within the tribe or state and disdain the association rules. That is merely disrespect.

We either have to leave the association, overthrow it, or reform it. Or split into different associations with different rules.

But we should always be allowed to leave. The DDR didn't allow anyone to leave. Same with modern North Korea or Cuba.

This is why socialism leads to excommunication: it inherently denies people the right to own themselves.

Nobody 1y ago

The association rules in modern states are BS. They're made up by a parasitic elite class who say they stand for us but only stand to acquire more power. The proof the rules are so extensive and BS and not indicative of how most individuals want to live is in the fact that we unwittingly break so many daily.

A better set of rule follows the ten commandments and law of Jesus, "Love God and love your neighbour as yourself". In secular speak the libertarian refrain, "don't hurt people and don't touch their stuff"(non-aggression principle) also works. Any laws made outside of those parameters are bureaucratic BS intended to show the power of the state and enslave humanity in the name of 'society'.

Jesus's way of overthrowing the clutches of the state seems upside down to us. The scriptures say he alone is seated with all authority in the heavens, He alone is the King of King's. His people aren't to create a revolution here nor are we capable of starting a kingdom on earth (although the ecclesia counts as this) we are to abide by His life through the power of the Holy Spirit. My citizenship is in heaven before it is in Australia. I will do things the same way King Jesus did... Be about kingdom business and ignore the state as much as I can.

Laeserin 1y ago

That is also a choice.

I'm an American, so my tendency is to want to create a new state.

The Beave 1y ago

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."

Catchy, but, not in the Bible.

Laeserin 1y ago

The responsibility to overthrow tyranny is literally written into the American and German association founding documents.

DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

And the Constitution allows for States circumventing the Federal government by calling a constitutional convention.

GERMAN BASIC LAW

"Article 20

[Constitutional principles – Right of resistance]

(1) The Federal Republic of Germany is a democratic and social federal state.

(2) All state authority is derived from the people. It shall be exercised by the people through elections and other votes and through specific legislative, executive and judicial bodies.

(3) The legislature shall be bound by the constitutional order, the executive and the judiciary by law and justice.

(4) All Germans shall have the right to resist any person seeking to abolish this constitutional order if no other remedy is available."

Nobody 1y ago

The documents that create nation states were not written by God as much as some Americans like to pretent theirs was. That's a lie perpetuated by the politicians to exploit religious moralising for their own nefarious ends.

Laeserin 1y ago

Irrelevant to the argument that I was making. The rules of the association can contain a right to overthrow the association leadership.

Nobody 1y ago

Oh, I thought you were responding to Beave.

Laeserin 1y ago

I was. I was making the point that I don't need the Bible for this one.

Nobody 1y ago

I have no idea what Australia's constitution may or may not say. Maybe we have the "right" to change stuff, maybe we don't. I never saw, let alone signed onto, this so called social-contract. That's just a small part of why I don't really acknowledge the authority of politicians.

Laeserin 1y ago

We are sometimes bound by contracts our ancestors signed, but we can always choose to leave the association and go someplace else, as they once did.