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I imagine I'm not alone in this but what I don't like about the whole EV craze is the government push to ban IC vehicles. That coupled with the lack of consideration for tradeoffs. EVs aren't good and ICs aren't bad. It's more complex. There is a place for both. Along with hybrids. That seems reasonable to me but it's seems this take is not common.

There are always tradeoffs and only fools don't see this.

Brunswick 1y ago

EVs are not "more complex". Do you realize your gasoline engine cost billions and took a half decade to design? Putting a bunch of laptop batteries under your floorboards isn't exactly the hardest concept to understand. The induction motor has been driving every industry, nearly every appliance in your home has one, keeping people alive in hospitals and schools with chillers and air handlers, keeping half the cities in the US from turning back into swampland for an entire century. The induction motor isn't more complex than a modern gasoline engine.

Oh what about all the electronics?

Would your gasoline engine work if it didn't have electronics? Injection drivers, flywheel induction pickups, knock sensors, richness feedback loops, spark plug coil packs, OBD self-diagnosis and reporting... none of this shit is necessary with electric.

The EV electric drive unit is a regenerative VFD connected to a gas pedal. These have been around in one form or another for 40 years. Its not that fucking complicated, not even a little.

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Discussion

kepford 1y ago

I didn't say EVs are more complex. I'm talking about the tradeoffs. The good vs bad dicodomy people get into about IC and EV. They each have positives and negatives. Seems like you are looking for a fight. I'm not anti EV or anti IC. I'm anti authoritarian.

Brunswick 1y ago

Agreed. I'm trying to disabuse the anti EV fud because I'm for freedom and independence foremost and its frustrating to watch people paint themselves into a corner in reaction to authoritarians. The reality is EVs are a decentralizing force, and oil dependence is a centralizing one.

kepford 1y ago

Reactionary response is one of the most common responses. We all can fall into it.

The Beave 1y ago

For 99.9999999% of people, EVs are centralizing.

Try to fix one. Then tell me how great they are. Until Right to Repair stuff becomes ubiquitous (and it won't), you're screwed.

Brunswick 1y ago

That many 9's implies there is only 1/100th of a person that can maintain the car. You are throwing up a new-part supply-chain problem. Yet another red herring, a pathetic argument. Firstly, there are indeed third party suppliers of parts for EVs, you don't need to only replace parts with OEM. Secondly, my original point is EVs don't need nearly as much drivetrain maintenance as an ICE vehicle. The drivetrain is about 20x or more reliable and less maintenance than ICE. Thirdly, the main parts would need to maintain on an EV are readily available from parts stores and from many suppliers, and the dope that can't fucking change brakes on their car can still find any mechanic to do it for them because its the exact same interchangeable parts as all other vehiclea on the road. Lastly, there are plenty stupid brars out there that drag race their EVs and get them tangled around a telephone pole. This means there are plenty perfectly good parts available in the junk yard. Just because you don't understand something doesen't mean its something to be afraid of.

The Beave 1y ago

It's not a pathetic argument when car makers are throwing up more roadblocks to People repairing their own vehicles. Nowadays, a lot of parts that have to be replaced won't work with the system until you actually reprogram the body control modules or the ECU for the engine. People can't actually do that, which is the problem. And a lot of the vital components in electric vehicles are more heavily integrated with the electronics. Aside from regular maintenance and stuff like brakes or shocks, and even shocks sometimes are an exception to that, you can't actually do a lot of the work yourself, so it's not ridiculous as long as people don't have access to the electronics tools and the programming tools in order to actually replace bigger components on vehicles.

Brunswick 1y ago

Your beef is with all auto manufacturers. Why are you using this as an argument against EVs?

The Beave 1y ago

Because it's worse in newer EVs.

Dude, I'm glad you are having a good time with yours. Many don't. I, personally, won't.

Brunswick 1y ago

Hey, I'm not forcing you to do anything. I'm just pointing out you are following the crowd

The Beave 1y ago

I'm really not. I buy old cars I can fix myself. Nearly no one I know does that anymore.

Brunswick 1y ago

You're jealous because Tesla can mass produce a car that can blow the doors off any ICE you can customize. That's what this is really about, isn't it?

The Beave 1y ago

No. It isn't. I've never even driven one. 🤷‍♂️

Brunswick 1y ago

How is it worse when they turn off your EV without your permission than when they turn off your ICE without your permission? Obviously you have never been late on child support payments. You have more to be concerned about than just a fucking remote switch in your car.

The Beave 1y ago

Because you can't just buy another ecu and slap it in, tune it and drive. High end motor controllers are really effing dangerous let alone harder for idiots like me to wrap their heads around how to get stuff running right without setting anything on fire.

Of course I haven't been late on a child support payment. I've never had a kid. 😮‍💨

Brunswick 1y ago

Electronics are replaceable, just like an ECU. Someone will make a new VFD controller and bypass all of the security controls when it becomes a problem. There are hot-rod guys that have these EVs torn down and know them inside out.

The Beave 1y ago

Yup. But, yes not the same level as aftermarket ICE stuff now.

It's also exceptionally dangerous to play with that stuff casually. It's beyond my capability.

Nope Noperson 1y ago

Aren't the raw materials for the batteries super centralized?

Brunswick 1y ago

Batteries aren't consumable. You could say the same of the xenon in the headlights. The decentralized nature of fuel is the liberating aspect of EVs.

Nope Noperson 1y ago

It seems more complicated.

From Business Insider:

"Tesla battery replacements can cost over $20,000, Tesla owners have reported. When one Canadian Tesla owner's battery died in 2023, the company told him a replacement would cost $26,000. Another owner in Scotland received a bill equivalent to $21,000 USD to replace his Tesla's battery after it got damaged by rain.

Batteries degrade at varying rates based on a number of factors, like how the EV was charged, what type of environment it was driven in, and more. Auto expert Sandy Munro previously told Business Insider that, the Tesla batteries are easily damaged and difficult to repair or even assess. Munro even said Tesla's Model Y battery has "zero repairability" following a collision."

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How much Xenon is in a headlamp? Are Xenon headlamps critical or are there alternatives?

An EV needs between 20 and 140lbs of Lithium and 30lbs of Cobalt. The majority of these are mined in the Congo, often by kids, and the companies are owned by China. The US has almost no pressence in the market.

I get that it is good to get away from a handful of oil/gas companies, and that there are numerous sources of electricity.

Brunswick 1y ago

Precisely. Business Insider sounds credible doesen't it? THERE ARE NO CREDIBLE NEWS SOURCES. Get your head out of your ass. There are equal and worse arguments against ICE vehicles. What do you expect from an emerging technology? Are we supposed to have ready-to-go supply chains before the new economy even barely starts? Bullshit Insider can go fuck themselves.