The zap system discourages posts like that. Only vapid posts that instantly get a point across that the reader implicitly agrees with get zaps. The trend is toward pithy, uninsightful positive reinforcement. It's a bubble-creating machine.
Discussion
For now. That can and will change
It is intrinsic to the system, it cannot change.
What is your vision for it?
If you want a vision of the future, imagine two bots exchanging proprietary shitcoins back and forth forever.
Me or him?
I’m new as well and learning.
We’re social creatures and we’re sheep. We’ll always gravitate to a huddled mass of Kardasians and Hiltons blowing their way into likes and vast wealth.
Zaps can also be used for those with brains to support others with brains.
Nostr Substack,Nostr news, Nostr Nobel Prize.
You.
Thanks for sharing. Will respond later. Getting off my phone now.
Enjoy. Chat soon
>Zaps can also be used for those with brains to support others with brains.
They really can't.
Hi. I’m back. I’m going to take a stab at responding:
(1) We’re social creatures and we’re sheep. We’ll always gravitate to a huddled mass of Kardasians and Hiltons blowing their way into likes and vast wealth.
I don’t know what you mean by this or what it has to do with zap culture. Could you clarify?
As an aside I’ll respond conceptually: It’s true that a lot of people (probably the majority) gravitate towards the Kardashians. Are you saying this mass behavior enables their fame? If so, isn’t that bad? It is also true that an important minority of people are repelled by whatever cultural phenomenon they represent. The dissidents, punks, independent thinkers, etc. I consider these people to be crucial and I generally identify with them. I would much rather support them.
Again, not sure how this is relevant to our original discussion of zap culture but I’ll offer it anyway.
(2) Zaps can also be used for those with brains to support others with brains.
This I don’t see. The statement itself is vague and a generalization so I actually don’t really understand what you mean. But I’ll respond to what I think you mean. There are countless ways for people with brains to support each other. I would say that the biggest reward for a person with a brain is to be engaged with, to be challenged, to collaborate in building something or in advancing ideas together or in solving problems together. I don’t see how a zap achieves any of these things. If people were throwing money at Socrates when he was giving speeches and exposing his ideas, I doubt anything intellectually/philosophically fruitful would have come of it. Einstein refined and ultimately proved his theory of relativity by corresponding with a contemporary. This is far removed from zap culture. My read on social media is that it has generally made society stupider. Shorter attention spans, obsessed with external validation, wasting their attention on extremely superficial things, fueling consumerism, losing discernment skills. Zapping seems like an extension and an amplifier of this and more.
(3) Nostr Substack,Nostr news, Nostr Nobel Prize.
Again. How are any of these made fundamentally better by making zaps part of the equation?
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
Zaps are payments.
Instead of 10k likes, if each like equals a penny, that’s now 100 dollars.
People will be paid for likable content. Whether it’s onlyfan models or builders.
Content creators will be paid directly, instead of through advertising.
I understand what zaps are.
I have no issue with people being paid for content.
I have an issue with zaps being used as a metric to judge the quality of the content or the quality of people.
Why?
I already wrote a lot about this. I think it’s at the beginning of this thread.
So many reasons.
A worrisome one is that if the default is for the content/people with the most zaps get the most visibility/credibility/worth it becomes incredibly easy for financial elites to take complete control of which ideas are collectively deemed worthy and true. It becomes easy for them to control the culture, the narrative and push whatever agenda they want.
That doesn’t make sense.
Ok. That is ONE issue. What doesn’t make sense TO YOU?
I’ve shared a bunch of other concerns/arguments against zap culture.
How long have you all been zapping? Can you point to any concrete examples that back up your own arguments?
This app is like 5 days old. Everyone is excited about zapping pennies because it’s novel. That will wear off and it’s true use will show itself.
This truly doesn’t address anything that I’ve said
It addresses everything you said if you can think bigger, for just a moment.
Extrapolate out.
>Extrapolate out.
As I have said to ten billion trillion million students (it feels like:)
Show your work.
I have.
Instead of telling us to "think bigger," think bigger yourself then type those words out. We can't read your mind. Make your own arguments for yourself. Show your work.
I have. Just go reread my comments throughout.
TLDR:
We need a Nostr for the core 80-90%. Something that allows for civilized discussion without disturbing rhetoric to get in the way.
We need to do this without blocking dissenting voices.
We also need to allow for the fringe voices to be accessed and to flourish when their views stop being fringe.
Zapping will allow for creators to be paid for creating, not for catering to advertisers.
Many will get rich from being Insta-hoes, while many others will get rich from providing: news, data, relays, badges, and a million other things that haven’t been created yet
You’re assuming alternative social networks are going to catch on and become mainstream. I don’t think that’s the case at all lol.
That 90% is happily posting their frivolous nothings on Twitter, so it’s concerning that you’re happy to encourage a system that marginalises politically incorrect opinions. A lot of ppl leave the mainstream platforms to escape that.
I say to the 90%, good riddance!
I’d prefer if more normal ppl were here tbh, but the 90% doesn’t really have any opinions worth censoring so why leave Twitter?
Social networks were a 2000s-2010s fad and they will be increasingly less common and more niche until they are just gone.
Completely disagree, ppl love attention.
Are you actually unable to see how pathological it is that you can’t scroll the tl without seeing something about zaps in practically every post?
If it was just a tipping system, that’d be fine. But it’s literally the central topic of discussion.
That’s very different.
Think bigger.
Please describe to us your amazing big vision?
Not with you while you’re being cunty.
I expected more from you. Resorting to personal attacks is completely useless.
Are you attempting to punish me by withholding your vision from me?
If you had an actual vision that you were excited about and could describe competently, wouldn’t you want to share it with the “cunty” people who actually have no idea what you’re taking about?
This is my second time asking you to describe your vision. I already addressed your first response too.
You started with the personal attack, I simply volleyed back.
I am a banker. I wish to subvert NOSTR? What do I do?
Easy. Zap a bunch of people to make them my suckups, then start concern trolling "Hey guys I think we need some censorship don't you think?" 500 zaps 500 shares
The problem is that you think it's "likeable" content that will be rewarded, as though that's a sig of quality. Banality, uncontroversialness, positive reinforcement, these are the things that will get zaps. That is not a sign of quality, but conformity.
Ok? That’s a sign of the human condition. It will always be that way. The masses are sheep and will be herded.
The difference with what Nostr can become is that the non-masses can never completely lose their voice.
Unless the non-masses collectively decide never to zap you, and the masses never read something without 500 zaps.
That has been and always will be rewarded.
Now quality can be rewarded as well.
#[9] this is the vision. Extrapolate out.
I really don’t think we’re going to get anywhere here.
Agree to disagree.
Small minds will stay small unless exercised to expand
So excercise can make things bigger? I need to add something to my workout routine. But what? 🤔
You’re saying I have a small mind?
You said we’re not going to get anywhere. I said what I said.
No one's getting anywhere because you're refusing to make your case beyond platitudes like just saying the word "vision" with zero context.
That was a yes or no question
It wasn’t a yes or no reply.
Yeah that's a problem. You're being obstinate because you lost an argument and refuse to take an L.
What argument did I lose?
The one in this thread doofus.
There was nothing to lose in this thread, doofus.
Just a lack of constructive dialogue so I shortened any commentary I’d provide.
Literally everyone in this thread was constructive except for you.
"Just get vision!" is not a constructive argument, it's a cult slogan.
When tied into my previous comments it’s more than constructive enough.
There was a lack of real engagement to my comments. “Uhhh I disagree” doesn’t count.