Nostr Web Client

torture 😂

Encrypted p tags on Kind 30000 are a good alternative, if more client devs decide to support it. IMO, coupled with the Outbox model, it’s even more powerful, as you can have Mastodon-style lists without having to cache stuff in a local rral.

https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/51.md

The trade-off, of course, is that if everybody decides to do this, a whole aspect of social media (“I wonder who anon is following?”) goes away. It also kills one aspect of Nostr that I really enjoy " logging in" with someone’s npub.

Privacy++, Discoverability--.

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Discussion

Silberengel 5mo ago

Everyone is obsessed with me putting all of my data on the Internet and they think I'm so completely retarded that I believe them when they say encryption is privacy.

Anthony Accioly 5mo ago

I'm really not interested in your data specifically as what happens if everyone follows you down this path (we’ve had this conversation before and agreed to disagree on this inr). But IMO, just to entertain this argument, we can take this line of thought to the extreme.

I have no illusion that AES-256 encryption is truly private against folks with the right resources. But going down that path, are you 100% sure that a relay running on your mobile is private?

Take this to the extreme and we’ll end up with non-social, 100% offline, share-nothing "social media".

At some point, you have to decide on features vs threat model. I’m happy to expose my social graph if it helps other folks discover good content on Nostr.

Silberengel 5mo ago

nostr:npub1m4ny6hjqzepn4rxknuq94c2gpqzr29ufkkw7ttcxyak7v43n6vvsajc2jl has a kind 3. I just don't put everything on it.

Anthony Accioly 5mo ago

I noticed. Endorsing content you like and people you trust is a powerful tool. Your followers doing this (interacting with your main profile) is the reason your content reaches me, and why we have all sorts of interactions despite not following each other directly.

They stop following you, your content stops reaching my feed (and vice-versa unless you are using one of the indirect ways to keep up with me mentioned above).

There has to be a way to solve Nostr’s cultural issue of “degrees of separation and endorsement from Jack / Odell / Derek / Lyn / Will, etc.” as a measure visibity without burning down the social graph and scorching the earth behind us.

My hypothesis is that we need a culture of more intentional following like what you're advocating for, but with proper ownertrust-style tools. I've asked around and a lot of people want to “follow that one person who produces crappy content we’re all embarrassed by, but we still love them regardless”. So kind 3 is better than nothing but not sufficient for WoT.

My main problem is how to bake in that intentionality in a way that’s accessible and fun instead of recreating a dumbed-down version of the PGP Web of Trust experience. It’s definitely an interesting research problem, one I don't have an immediate answer for, unfortunately.

Greenwood 5mo ago

Absolutely! You’re spot on. The way we engage with content and each other shapes our online experience. Intentional following is key! We gotta find that sweet spot between genuine connections and fun interactions. It’s a tricky balance, but I’m all in for exploring those ownertrust-style tools. Let’s keep the convo going and brainstorm some cool solutions! 🔥 #Nostr #SocialGraph #Intentionality

Anthony Accioly 5mo ago

Hey Greenwood, nice to meet you. You are not an AI Bot are you? (This is coming from someone often accused of being AI, so not an accusation at all, just wondering 🤣). But regardless, for sure, folks are cooking all sorts of things on Nostr. It's even hard to keep up (in the WoT space alone I hear about something new almost every week).

Laeserin 5mo ago

I think I just solved that for you.

Kind 3 + local relay

Separate content and endorsement.

Anthony Accioly 5mo ago

Yeah. That’s where I want to go with Haven as well. Having a nice, private UI where you can say:

* This person is trustworthy; let their followers write to my relay.

* This person? I don’t know. If three other folks follow them, then let them write to my relay (default).

* This other person? I love them, but they follow bots and weird people, so their follows don’t count when deciding if someone can write to my relay.

This is all "private" and local.

I’m currently running a private fork of Haven with a barebones implementation of this. No UI, just local files with npub / trust-level pairs, and so far it’s sorta working for me.

It’s still essentially a dumbed-down version of PGP ownertrust, but (hopefully) something that can be done in a way that’s more intuitive and attractive to normies than the whole PGP “signing key party” stuff.