Nostr Web Client

A beautiful graph on why whirlpool is an extremely inefficient design.

Even Wasabi 1.0 was way more efficient than that, and Wasabi got substantially improved with Wasabi 1.1 (multi denomination) and 2.0 (arbitrary denomination).

#m=image%2Fjpeg&dim=1544x1491&blurhash=%7C8S6Vz%25M%7EqMy-%3DgLogt8wgtRM_D%25xvR%24xv-qV%40oNxbbakCoLR*aejZWUj%5BxuoM%25MWURQWANFoMW-%3FcMxIU%25gNFWExuRiRkNFX7xbnQR%2Ba_WBX7spf%2CxakBIonjazWBxHNssEt7kCM%7BtQV%5BM%7BxuRjIUof%25LRkV%40oeWCWAog&x=b797d97ca1d1e4a09e1fc4f435b8f5b54328fa426fd304aa69aef8b3d1e3d949

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Discussion

OT 1y ago

Are you talking about the extra TX?

Max 1y ago

Yes, which means the unnecessary creation and spending of utxos.

Peter Todd 1y ago 💬 9

I always find it funny when Samourai fanboys claim that an advantage of whirlpool is that the anonymity set is easily calculated.

Like, dude, you think it's good that your coinjoin scheme is so inefficient it's easy for a third party to calculate the apparent k-anonymity set?

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Peter Todd 1y ago

You're actually missing a transaction in your graph: the transaction where you actually use your coinjoined coins in a payment.

Because in the future, once you actually implement in-coinjoin arbitrary payments, that'll save a transaction. One tx vs three in whirlpool.

kukks 1y ago

Sir, but I already built it in BTCPay since February last year 😭

Max 1y ago

And it even works with payment batching, which is yet another blockspace savings technique.

kukks 1y ago

And once you get wabisabi payjoin, it gets even better, because the receiver breaks down the payment directly to denominations (if they want) and the sender wouldnt even know where his payment went, while still having a proof of payment! This avoids requiring yet another coinjoin transaction to break the link from sender and receiver. And even better, the receiver doesn't even learn the coins used that fulfilled the payment!

Bada₿it 1y ago

Mind blowing stuff!

https://m.primal.net/HXiU.webp

crank 1y ago

Everybody says one or the other design is complete and utter garbage and trash, and I haven't yet undertaken trying to figure out which is best (for me or in general) with any real rigor.

Max 1y ago

Coinjoins.org is a good starting place

goodcharity 1y ago

The fee structure is also too confusing. They end up having to put constraints on what pools you can join so you don't accidentally clobber yourself with mining fees.