OK I see where you are coming from. I believe being a bitcoiner (or the usage of such a broad label) and being an individual are not mutually exclusive.
I respectfully do not agree that community = centralization because I'm coming at it from a global perspective. Being in a small community empowers individual agency when stacked against the rest of the world. If we all acted as only individuals and choose not to be a part of any community, you will not have the leverage and power to affect change whenbthe rest of the world bands together amd actively works in opposition ton what you believe. However, from an individual perspective I can absolutely see where you are coming from though. The blind homonogization of opinions does create a singular attack vector. But the proof is here in this conversation... I believe you and I are both bitcoiners (however you wish to define it) but we can still be individuals and have opposing opinions on specific points. To each their own.
When looking at the world as a whole, pockets of small circular economies amd communities provide agency for individuals. These communities of like minded people can live their lives in harmony as they choose to. They can leverage network effects and cause greater change. Too large of a community in the context of the whole DOES create centralization but I think how those individuals function independently within the community affects whether that community is a centralizing force or not.
I disagree that lightning is centralization, would love to hear your side of it. Lightning nodes are mostly individual bitcoiners running their own nodes. Yes there are large central entities involved but they can be bypassed and they do not control what happens with lightning or bitcoin as a whole.
I do not think that bitcoin as an L1 is the end all solution as there are certain deficiencies in specific situations such as transaction settlement times in a retail environment. Just a common example that I'm sure you've heard many times before.
I don't shit on those who choose to only use L1 bitcoin and not lightning. Use it or not is your own perogative. But as a small business owner and as a freedom loving individual, I do use it and I benefit from it on a daily basis. I do believe it is a better system than the legacy financial rails we use today and that makes it worthy of my time. I believe widespread adoption of lightning is a net benefit to the world.
The crux of my argument here is that anyone who believes in decentralization (i think we can agree this is a core tenant of the bitcoiner ethos) should be on nostr and transition away from X. I can appreciate nuance and there needs to be an adjustment period since we still live in a centralized fiat world. But we need to all individually work towards the greater vision of decentralization one step at a time.
I have been down these same arguments time and time again and I could respond to all of them but then i would have to gp in to details on why it is not evil or unrealistic and that is a lot of typing and I have big thumbs on a little screen with autocorrect off so would rather not go through that. So hopefully I can get you to entertain me while I attempt a different approach to this argument. Usually I would just call you a commie and laugh at you while you try to explain in a concrete way why you aren't and I use an abstract way to point out you are and on and on we go. So lets try this:
The big thing about bitcoin is self sovereignty. The most sovereign people are kings. They answer to no one. You probably first thought of game of thrones or a real king like Henry the 8th or someome. But that kind of king is sustainable in a bitcoin world because we all know it makes cruelty and war unprofitable. Although I would argue we have been given a misleading narrative about kinhs and queens from the past intentipnally by the church but that is just me. Imagine yourself as a bitcoin king and imagine what kind of king you would be in today with all the technology we have. What incentive do you have to rule over others?
The only way to do it over a long period of time is lightning. If I was a king that wanted to rule over people I would need a booming economy to keep paying my troops not to kill me and instead protect me. That then leads to very centralized lightning networks. Dont believe me? Bitcoin beach was closed off from anyone outside their private lightning network for years. Eveb if you went and visited El Salvador. It was ezclusive to locals for years and if you wanted to pay them using lightning you had to use a third party custodial service. Even afyer they enacted the law.
Why would I sacrafice my individualism and sovereignty to join a community where i am asked to sacragice for the greater good? That communist shit. Community leads to communism. I would rather be a good king and make profitable moves. If I don't I will go broke and eventually lose my sovereignty
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Sorry I pushed post before I corrected my fat finger spelling mistakes. Here it is again with less retarded spelling
I have been down these same arguments time and time again, and I could respond to all of them, but then I would have to go into details on why it is not evil or unrealistic, and that is a lot of typing. I have big thumbs on a little screen with autocorrect off, so I would rather not go through that. So hopefully, I can get you to entertain me while I attempt a different approach to this argument. Usually, I would just call you a commie and laugh at you while you try to explain in a concrete way why you aren't, and I use an abstract way to point out you are, and on and on we go. So let's try this:
The big thing about Bitcoin is self-sovereignty. The most sovereign people are kings. They answer to no one. You probably first thought of Game of Thrones or a real king like Henry the 8th or someone. But that kind of king is sustainable in a Bitcoin world because we all know it makes cruelty and war unprofitable. Although I would argue we have been given a misleading narrative about kings and queens from the past intentionally by the church, but that is just me. Imagine yourself as a Bitcoin king and imagine what kind of king you would be today with all the technology we have. What incentive do you have to rule over others?
The only way to do it over a long period of time is lightning. If I was a king that wanted to rule over people, I would need a booming economy to keep paying my troops not to kill me and instead protect me. That then leads to very centralized lightning networks. Don't believe me? Bitcoin Beach was closed off from anyone outside their private lightning network for years. Even if you went and visited El Salvador. It was exclusive to locals for years and if you wanted to pay them using lightning, you had to use a third-party custodial service. Even after they enacted the law.
Why would I sacrifice my individualism and sovereignty to join a community where I am asked to sacrifice for the greater good? That's communist shit. Community leads to communism. I would rather be a good king and make profitable moves. If I don't, I will go broke and eventually lose my sovereignty
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