I had a bad childhood too, it’s incorrect to assume I had a “rose colored”experience. I’m not denying that outliers exist, but most people should be having children.
Discussion
I meant with having children. You're clearly in love with the idea and that's great. But you're making some assumptions about others in your thinking too.
You are acting like having children is a niche lifestyle choice I’ve made that I’m trying to rope others into like some kind of cult, when in reality it is the default since the beginning of time.
Our culture has been destroyed by propaganda. Catholics have it right. Make babies, they are a blessing.
I'm sorry you had a bad childhood. That can be turned into a gift by *some* people when they become parents, but that still doesn't mean my parents should have had children when they did in the state they did. It doesnt negate the wrong before it just because one does it better when they do it.
So you’re mad at your parents for your existence?
I'm not mad at my parents for anything. Even if I was, that still doesn't mean they should have had children when they did, in the state they did. You're trying to distract from my actual argument.
I realize that they simply should not have had children when they did, in the state they did. They were mentally ill drug addicts who absolutely should not have had children in that situation. They weren't even bad people. They were just sick and could hardly help themselves, much less a child. Maybe they didn't have the presence of mind to even rationally consider reproduction. That's fine. But you'd be standing by their bed telling them that they SHOULD do it and that's what I have a problem with. You keep trying to distract from that but I'm not going to let you. There are people on this earth who should not have children.
I think it’s a good thing that you exist. I’m glad they had you. I’m glad you’re here with us.
I agree. But that still doesn't mean they should have had me at the time they did, in the state they were in.
If not for their illnesses, I would say it was immoral and unethical. But it just was. Given you seem to be of sound mind and body, cheering them on would have been immoral and unethical, according to my position.
I'm glad you're here too, but that doesn't mean I don't think your position is any less arrogant and out of touch with reality.
If them having you resulted in a good thing then it was a good thing
And this is the fundamental disagreement that we have. I do not think an act is good simply because the victims of it happen to survive, and rarely, thrive.
I don't think it was good that someone kidnapped Adam Walsh from his father simply because his father went on to do good things after. The original wrong was still wrong. John is still a victim. Adam is still a victim. There are still consequences of the evil even if the people involved did something you consider good. You're idea here is basically the underpinning of the idea that it's okay to crack a few eggs for the greater or "common" good. It's an unpredictable and dangerous path to take, even of someone at some point just happens to benefit from it. You can't negate your mess and its consequences simply because someone else chose to clean it up.
Conversely, there are people on this earth who SHOULD have children because they want to and can bare the responsibility of it.
I think I've made it clear that I think people should have children if they want to and can bare the responsibility of it. My only real issue with your position is that everyone *should.* You just arrogantly make that blanket statement like it is so obviously true and then reduce disagreement to emotional based responses. Sure, most humans have some emotion. I have plenty. But this is an issue that should involve reason as well. And I find it irrational and unreasonable to just proclaim that everyone should have children, when I've so clearly seen examples of where that is not true. That's my stance on it.