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Jack, what's going on with UTXO bloat? Is anyone serious about fixing it? Are we just gonna let nodes become a thing only big corporations can afford?

JackTheMimic 1mo ago

People are working on it but I don't actually see the issue. Storage is the cheapest thing to upgrade on a computer.

I think that problem is just a feature of how the Bitcoin Core/Knots software handles chain state. Libbitcoin is working on a better solution (imo) that puts the focus where it belongs RAM and CPU optimization. People aren't going to not be able to afford the RAM and CPU that would be needed to index everything. I have said before that "UTXOs" are just one implementation's way of telling you what the chainstate is and not necessarily needed to keep a verifiable index of coins.

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Discussion

Comte de Sats Germain 1mo ago

What are the other options? Other than UTXOs? I wouldn't have guessed that could be done... What about when 11 billion people are using it? Are we talking full closets dedicated to ram?

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1mo ago

UTXOs are like a coin you can split and join. The other option is accounts, fuck that.

The database doesn't have to index everything. It should index in reverse and not store anything spent, and the older, the less optimized, as it's unlikely to ever be spent the further you go back.

Comte de Sats Germain 1mo ago

Yes, but I think he was only talking about nodes. I don't think utxos can be gotten rid of, but maybe there's another option than holding the utxo set in ram. Idk, maybe he'll clarify

That partial index sounds good. Are there any other options?

JackTheMimic 1mo ago

It's tough to wrap the mind around but memory maps are very fast to query and don't have to have a list of UTXOs. On a per block basis, "is the coin being double spent?" and "is the coin there(in the spending address)?" solves the issue of needing to know where all the coins are simultaneously.

Comte de Sats Germain 1mo ago

Thanks, I'm reading about it. Seems like it should already be using mmap... But I should read more...

JackTheMimic 1mo ago

Core does not, Libbitcoin does.

JackTheMimic 1mo ago

Just have the chainstate be queriable. Here, Eric Voskuil jumps in the thread to explain it pretty well the the Bitcoin Core Devs: https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/libbitcoin-for-core-people/1222/27