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nostr:npub1g8wr20ntxwmfyk3huueel34jjpt04m2k8enyyawpum7625aancvqrn82gq can someone help answer this question for us?

Are Sats in a Lightning channel "safer" than Sats on an exchange?

We a know that FTX was selling "fake" Bitcoin, crediting accounts with Bitcoin they did not own.

I don't think it would have been possible to transfer these fake Bitcoin into a lightning channel since they really just represented an entry on a proprietary ledger, they we never actual Bitcoin.

But anything in a Lightning channel must be Bitcoin (I know Litecoin also has a Lightning Network but they are not interoperabile). I might have bought Bitcoin on FTX and never know for sure that there was ever any actual Bitcoin credited to my account. If I buy Sats on lightning, how do I know I have actual Bitcoin?

(I think the answer is because lightning IS Bitcoin, but how do I know that)?

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Discussion

Tha Brainer 2y ago

In fact, having a balance of Lightning bitcoin it means you have a balance of the bitcoins which are locked in a certain channel. If you connect via Alby it means that you are connected to the Alby channel with your wallet. So in fact is sort of a custodial ownership. In order to make it non-custodial, as far as I understood, one should run its own node and connect the node to another peer opening a channel. U don’t need to open a h che annex with everyone, one need to open a channel with a peer who has many connections, so I think that connecting to the Alby peer would give access to possibility of payments to all the addresses connected to Alby channel, at least this is what I understood 😅

Bryon D Bothun 2y ago

But if someone with a custodial Lightning wallet were to try and transfer their fake Sats to a "real" Lightning channel, I think that real wallets would immediately recognize these were not actual Sats and refuse the transaction. They could tell me I have SATs, but I couldn't send them out of their channel. (Unless they also had a network of Fake channels running exclusively with their fake Sats). Is that more or less correct?

Tha Brainer 2y ago

that cannot actually happen, cause those sats you receive are actually in a balance shit of the channels who locked them in a "safe" ... so there is an amount of bitcoin locked in the lightning network, what maybe could happen, is that a malicious channel, lets say in a certain state of the balance shit you have 0 sats, then you receive 2000 sats, and the malicious channel closes the channel with a previous state of the balance shit, but it is just needed that the other part of the channel, the other peer who opened the channel with the malicious actor, he can in fact proof the autenticity of that particular balance sheet, so, infact you should fall into a couple of malicious actors in order for this to succeed, I suppose ...

so in fact unless basically a good part of the open channels are malicious, in a way or another i suppose that the balance of your address can still be somehow retrieve, this goes a little bit longer then my current knowledge about it!! Maybe someone can explain use better =)

Tha Brainer 2y ago

balance "sheet" ehehe

Tha Brainer 2y ago

nostr:npub15sfwtwn84qlvc6u3urqcgtk7yvwcufklvt7e55sw53x0k5n3ejqqez4ce5 bro, did you zap me for mistake?

cause I see an invoice asking the zap back! 😅

The Daniel ⚡️ 2y ago

What do you mean asking for the zap back? Can you explain?

Tha Brainer 2y ago

sincerely I think I saw kinda like an invoice to be paid, but probably you sent me an invoice before zapping me, probably was a mistake

boston wine 2y ago

If you’re using a custodial Lightning wallet, there’s no guarantee that the sats are there (don’t trust, verify, and all that). Although the primary custodial Lightning providers like nostr:npub1hcwcj72tlyk7thtyc8nq763vwrq5p2avnyeyrrlwxrzuvdl7j3usj4h9rq and nostr:npub1getal6ykt05fsz5nqu4uld09nfj3y3qxmv8crys4aeut53unfvlqr80nfm and nostr:npub1ex7mdykw786qxvmtuls208uyxmn0hse95rfwsarvfde5yg6wy7jq6qvyt9 seem pretty legit 🧡

You can run your own Lightning node with your own hardware and seed phrase, in which case your open Lightning channels are essentially a 2-of-2 multi sig with channel partners.

An intro to this would be non-custodial LN wallets like Phoenix or Breez (I’ve liked both).

Perhaps nostr:npub1wtfnlhvhvm90lgsgyd6cu82tj3v429y7qkuu54srwzxpefppc2zq3cjjv2 or nostr:npub1aeh2zw4elewy5682lxc6xnlqzjnxksq303gwu2npfaxd49vmde6qcq4nwx or nostr:npub1utx00neqgqln72j22kej3ux7803c2k986henvvha4thuwfkper4s7r50e8 could provide more detailed/technically precise info on how Lightning nodes function, if you’re curious ⚡️🤙

The Daniel ⚡️ 2y ago

I’m writing an answer for this, but it's turning out to be longer than I thought it would be, so I’ll post it as soon as I can.

twentyone 2y ago

Looking forward to your post

boston wine 2y ago

Here you go:

nostr:note14ahuzjjtqpxy5gssg56qv4q23las000y0z4tt8lkzkmcwpvh4z9qmj84z9

The Daniel ⚡️ 2y ago

nostr:note14ahuzjjtqpxy5gssg56qv4q23las000y0z4tt8lkzkmcwpvh4z9qmj84z9

j 2y ago

The short non technical answer to @

j 2y ago

The short non technical answer to nostr:npub15sfwtwn84qlvc6u3urqcgtk7yvwcufklvt7e55sw53x0k5n3ejqqez4ce5 question is…if you’re not running your own Lightning node with bitcoin you hold the keys for you are essentially trusting someone else’s node. You would have to ask/trust the person/entity that operates the lightning node you’re using to give you proof that those sats are there.