Question to free speech:
When a group meets to discuss a racist agression. To plan murders and attacks.
Can a working society allow this reunion to happen?
%not associated to a specific event. But rather a general question%
Discussion
By what authority would a working society have to forbid another working society from holding a reunion?
To deny a terroristic action to happen.
How?
For example by storming the event with Police. Or with a big countermovement to crash the event and publicly post the faces and names of the hosts.
I ask because I do not know a greate answer. But I think doing nothing is one of the worst responses of a liberal and just society.
I do understand your motive to protect and defend yourself, your family and your community however initiating aggression promotes greater aggression. How do you suggest ending the war between Russia and NATO? How do we achieve and maintain peace between competitive aggressive people?
First things first. The war is Russia against Ukraine.
I think for liberal states it should be cristal clear. The war has to be ended with big military power to make shure no Russian is left on Ukrainian land. With every other Result the message is out that any state in the world with nuclear weapons can attack and gain land and get international acceptance.
NATO (ie the miltary-industrial complex) entirely created that war and they knew what they were doing.
They reneged on every promise they made to Russia not to expand through europe after the cold war.
In 2014 the CIA removed the democratically elected government of Ukraine because it was Russia-friendly.
Since then they've set up a string of CIA bases along the Russian border from which they run ops against Russia.
What would the US do if Russia removed a friendly president in Mexico, replaced it with their stooge, then set up a string of bases along the US border and ran ops against them?
Plus the US has been rampaging around the world creating war like a deranged toddler. Killing millions of innocents. The US is the bad actor.
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This is a total confusion of what is happening. The problem is that Russia attackes Ukrain. When you do something illegal like killing someone, there is no reality where you can leave the court as a free man, when they can proof you killed him. No matter what contracts the dead person did engage with you.
Equally it does not matter at all, what contracts there are or what so ever. It is illegal to attack a country to gain ground and can not be justified. What diplomatic efforts did russia pleas do before attacking? I would not know of any effort to discuss. So Putin does not even himself believe there is a legitimation to the world. Only his Propaganda gives a very easy stupid legitimation to his followers/believers.
you think the NYT article is Putin propaganda?
May you could be so generous to share the article? 😉
You mean the article I pasted a link to?
Sure I can do that again if there's a chance to help someone see they're being programmed to support endless war! 😃
Sorry but there is nothing suspicious with this. The US started helping when russia started invading the Ukrain in 2014. When a democracy fought for their freedom and finally could get rid uf janukivics Tyranny, Russia attact, since Putin has a problem with democratic countries.
Ukraine has every right to defend all its theretories. Give me some points on why the defense of a democratic country is wrong? And what is the problem sending them support in weapons, education and intelligence?
Even wikipedia says Yanukovich was fairly elected. 
You are telling me that the US would be cool with it if Putin set up a string of bases along the Mexico border?
Because if so then there's really nothing I can do for you..
As fairly elected as Putin got elected recently. And even when you bring this argument with mexico a million times, it does not give a gram of legitimation to Putins war. And defenders are no war drivers, no matter how you turn it. It is always the attacker that drives the war. No matter what makes the attacker attack.
Only because you can follow why someone attackt does not making it more legitimate.
Your position is that the Russian attack came in 2014, and the US actions eg in the NYT article are a justified defensive response to that?
Which to be fair is a much more legitimate position than most people. One reason the hysteria in 2022 seemed so unjustifiable is that the people hanging out ukraine flags and demanding war with Russia hadn't cared less about the annexation of crimea in 2014.
It was obvious that they had been programmed to care now - and the result of that programming is, literally, the whole of the west being put on a bogus war footing. Oh and the west forcing ukraine to push its youth into a meat grinder - eg Boris Johnson flying in at the last minute to stop a peace agreement.
Do you agree at all?
Your arguments come kind out of thin air to be true. But there is not really something to agree. You just argue that whatever country can lounch an attack and the defender needs to give up to be in peace.
There is no thical nor logical legitimation in this point of yours to agree for me.
But the attack you refer to was in 2014 yes?
You are informed of the war in Ukrain? This war started in 2014 where Donezk and Luhansk were annected in a undercover attack from Russia. All was uncovered how lots of russian soldiers were brought there to fight under no official flag and pose as separatists. Then in 2022 Russia started its "special operation" what it is called in Russia with the goal to annect the whole Ukraine. Officially Russian propaganda says they are freeing Ukraine from a Nazi regime. "And demilitarisation, because Ukrainians suposedly did a lot of bloody crimes against civilians."
Ok but my point is that, even if what you say is true, nobody cared about that at all.
Do you have an opinion on why that would be and why suddenly now everyone cares and we have to have war with Russia, and the whole of society believes Putin is an evil menace who we must defeat by any means etc?
Yes very clearly.
Because in 2022 he started an invasion with attacks all over the ukraine that is still going on. In all this attacks there seems no goal to destroy military infrastructure. Rather it is full war against civilians with big numbers of sexual abuse and flatten whole cities. The intention seems very clear to destroy the civilisation of Ukraine with no focus on military.
So this paints a very clear picture, that putins propaganda about demilitarization and denazification is nothing but empty propaganda, sincelnone of their actions show anything of that.
You're avoiding my question so I'll answer it myself.
The reason nobody cared about whatever happened in Ukraine in 2014, but became hysterical about basically the same thing, on the face of it, happening in 2022 is because by 2022 an enormous propaganda effort was in full swing to instil fear and hatred of Russia, and to prepare western society for war on a scale unprecedented in the modern era.
As well as reporting on Ukraine this includes, for example, the Russiagate hoaxes, where US intelligence, DNC and media simply fabricated stories about Russian interference in the 2016 election. They were caught red-handed and there is no doubt whatsoever that this was a concerted and coordinated program to lie about Russia's threat - but of course it doesn't matter that they were caught because they simply don't report it.
You are being lied to about Russia in the same way you were lied to about Iraq and WMDs. Except now the war that you are being programmed to support will not be limited to killing a few million foreigners in a far away country that can't defend itself. The monsters who are doing this are perfectly willing to take you and your children all the way to nuclear war. And if we don't get there they'll still have used your fear and hatred to take away your freedoms.
Time to wake up.
You seem a lost case for sure. Call again when you are able to see what are actions and what reactions. Since defenders are naturally always reactor. If you do not want to understand please do not distub me.
Well you can no longer say nobody had told you what you were doing.
But war has always been popular I suppose.
I hope you enjoy it.
