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Replying to Neopatriarch

This is a verse for which no one ever demands context. Which is weird, cause the word "therefore" practically points directly at the context. The context limits the scope to something very specific, but that would mess up some people's gospel presentation.

koby 2y ago

So this verse is the final verse of the chapter 5. The therefore comes after he read all the teachings that Jesus gives. To me the be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect is the wrap up to everything Christ has taught.

It is the standard that our salvation depends on. If you fall short of perfect, you are in need of forgiveness of your sins and in need of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. If you cannot be perfect, not only to the letter of the law, but to the heart of the law(which is everyone) you need salvation.

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Neopatriarch 2y ago

Chapter divisions are not in the original autographs. Not are they inspired. So that's really not an issue.

Quote the verses you think the word "therefore" points too. I'm really interested in how you reach these conclusions.

koby 2y ago

You are correct, they are added for quick reference and to keep study uniform.

The direct context following verses 21-47. Here Christ goes beyond the letter of the law to the heart of the law. Here He lays out the law, and goes even further to tell us that we missed what goes back to (in my opinion) Gen 4: 6-7.

There, before the law, God says sin is crouching at your door due to the anger. In Matthew, Jesus goes beyond the law of Thou Shall Not Murder, to do not be angry with your brother.

In laying out both the law and heart of the law, Christ finishes with being perfect as God is perfect.

To me this ties is how we all fall short and are sinners before a Holy God.

Neopatriarch 2y ago

Was anyone ever made perfect by the God's Law?

koby 2y ago

We know Jesus was perfect.

Noah was called perfect in his generation(pre law given Moses pre flood)

But I don’t think the law makes someone perfect. We can only be considered perfect if God see Christ and not us when we are being judged. We need a Sacrifice, a Savior and Redeemer.

hongumart 2y ago

My interp on Christs message is this:

Jesus spent all of his time with imperfect people spreading the good news that you don’t have to be perfect to follow God. You should try, but the paradox is in trying for something that could never actually be achieve. Does it even matter if we try or not as “all have sinned”? I supposed it is still worth trying, even though on my own I could never achieve it. Enter Christ as Deus ex Machina

We can try to be perfect, and we will fail. We don’t have to be perfect to access God through the sacrifice of Christ.

Neopatriarch 2y ago

I fundamentally agree with this.

As Christians our obedience should spring from our love for God and that's always been the case. Which is why Paul can say, examine yourself whether your in the faith.... Which is similar to words also among the first of Christ, Get the mote out of your own eye.

But telling unbelievers they have to be perfect, as many Gospel presentations do is that an accurate presentation of what's being said? Jesus isn't talking to unbelievers, but rather to believing Jews. He is not making a Gospel presentation. (Apologies to Ray Comfort, may God continue to bless his work.) I do think we should follow the Way of the Master but this was how he spoke to believers.

That's what this thread is/was about anyway. Thanks for chiming in.

God bless

Neopatriarch 2y ago

So no creation gets to heaven by keeping the Law. Nor, does the law make one perfect.

Yet many Gospel presentations begin just like that, but even that is not what's being communicated when they take Matt 5:48 out of context.

So what's Jesus teaching? "You can perfectly keep the law."? What do you think?

Note: Jesus is and always was perfect: not made perfect.

Spaceman 2y ago

Sin is a ridiculous construct of meaningless oppression. That god and Jesus are perfect is absurd. I was just reading Deuteronomy, and was blown away. That god is a whiner! Where is there any perfection there!?