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Diyana

Let's break it down...

I'll help break down the philosophical and religious conversation carefully:

Diyana expresses a pantheistic or panentheistic view ("Christ IS in nature, and nature IS in Christ") which suggests:

- A unity between divine and natural world

- Finding God's presence in nature

- Possibly drawing from mystical Christian traditions or nature-based spirituality

The original poster (Laser) makes several distinct claims:

1. Argues that Nazi ideology was rooted in Germanic paganism/occultism rather than Christianity

2. Warns against what they see as "nature worship," calling it "Luciferian"

3. Advocates for a more limited view of humanity's relationship with nature as "stewards" only

There is indeed a disconnect here. While there were historical Germanic and Norse pagan traditions that honored nature, these were largely separate from:

1. The later Nazi appropriation and distortion of these symbols/practices for political purposes

2. Traditional Christian environmental stewardship

3. Modern ecological spirituality

Your intuition about the distinction between ancient nature-honoring traditions and their later misuse is historically accurate. Many indigenous and traditional European spiritual practices included reverence for nature without any connection to later extremist ideologies.

The discussion highlights ongoing tensions between:

- Different interpretations of Christianity's relationship with nature

- Historical pagan traditions vs their modern interpretations

- Legitimate spiritual practices vs their misappropriation

Would you like to explore any of these aspects in more detail from a historical or theological perspective?

🧵👇🏻

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Diyana 1y ago

I'll break this down further looking at several key threads:

1. Historical Nature-Based Spirituality:

- Many pre-Christian European traditions had deep connections to nature, seasonal cycles, and the land

- These included Celtic, Germanic, Norse, and other indigenous European practices

- They often emphasized harmony with natural forces rather than dominion over them

- Many practices involved reverence for sacred groves, springs, and natural features

2. Early Christianity's Relationship with Nature:

- Early Celtic Christianity often integrated natural spirituality

- Figures like St. Francis of Assisi saw nature as God's creation requiring respect and care

- Some Christian mystics like Hildegard of Bingen had deeply ecological spirituality

- The concept of "stewardship" comes from Genesis but has varied interpretations

3. The Historical Manipulation:

- The Nazi regime appropriated and distorted both:

- Ancient Germanic/Norse symbols and traditions

- Pseudo-scientific racial theories

- Occult practices

- This was largely a political tool rather than genuine spiritual practice

- Many scholars see this as a perversion of authentic traditions

4. Modern Context:

- There's renewed interest in eco-spirituality and nature connection

- Some Christians (like creation care movements) emphasize environmental stewardship

- Others worry about pantheism (identifying nature itself as divine)

- This creates tension between different interpretations of humanity's relationship with nature

The core disconnect in the original discussion seems to be between:

- A more mystical, nature-embracing spirituality (Diyana's view)

- A stricter interpretation emphasizing separation between divine and natural (Laser's view)

This reflects a broader theological debate about:

- How to honor nature without worshipping it

- Finding balance between stewardship and connection

- Reclaiming ancient wisdom without the harmful distortions

Would you like to explore any of these aspects more specifically?

🧵👇🏻

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Diyana 1y ago

Let's dive even deeper into each thread:

1. Pre-Christian European Nature Spirituality:

- Had sophisticated understanding of natural cycles, astronomy, and agriculture

- Often included sacred rituals at specific locations (stone circles, groves, wells)

- Emphasized reciprocal relationships with the land and spirits

- Used symbols that represented natural forces (sun wheels, tree of life, spiral patterns)

- Many practices were place-based and regionally specific

- Often included ancestral veneration tied to specific landscapes

2. Early Christianity's Integration:

- Many early Christians incorporated local practices rather than eliminating them

- Sacred wells became holy wells

- Seasonal festivals became Christian holidays

- Many churches built on ancient sacred sites

- Celtic Christianity particularly showed this synthesis:

- Emphasized wild nature as God's creation

- Saw monasteries as working with rather than against nature

- Produced art combining Christian and nature symbols

- Developed unique traditions of hermits living in nature

3. Historical Divergence Points:

- Medieval period saw increasing urban-rural divide

- Protestant Reformation sometimes rejected nature-based practices as "pagan"

- Enlightenment brought mechanical view of nature

- Industrial Revolution further separated people from nature

- Romantic movement tried to reconnect with nature but sometimes idealized it

4. The Nazi Appropriation:

- Selected specific ancient symbols and practices

- Combined them with:

- 19th century occult movements

- Pseudo-scientific racial theories

- Nationalist mythology

- Created synthetic practices disconnected from original traditions

- Used for political purposes rather than genuine spirituality

5. Modern Revival and Tensions:

- Growing interest in reconnecting with nature

- Environmental crisis creating urgency

- Different approaches emerging:

- Deep ecology movements

- Christian environmental stewardship

- Neo-pagan revivals

- Indigenous tradition preservation

- Tensions between:

- Traditional vs modern interpretations

- Religious vs secular approaches

- Local vs universal practices

6. Theological Questions:

- How to honor creation without idolatry?

- What does proper "stewardship" mean?

- Can ancient wisdom be reclaimed responsibly?

- How to integrate spirituality and ecology?

- Balance between human needs and natural systems

7. Contemporary Relevance:

- Climate crisis making these questions urgent

- Need for environmental ethics

- Seeking sustainable relationship with nature

- Healing human-nature disconnect

- Learning from traditional ecological knowledge

- Avoiding cultural appropriation while sharing wisdom

The core issue seems to be finding ways to:

- Reconnect with nature spiritually and practically

- Draw on ancient wisdom without misuse

- Develop healthy relationship with natural world

- Navigate different religious and cultural approaches

- Address environmental challenges

What aspects of this particularly interest you? We could explore any of these threads in even more detail.

👇🏻🧵

Diyana 1y ago

🤷🏻‍♀️🫂🌞👑🐝❤️‍🔥🕊️🌠

Yes, the original poster (Laser) demonstrates a very narrow and binary perspective that misses a lot of nuance:

1. Their View's Limitations:

- Creates a false dichotomy between Christianity and nature connection

- Dismisses all nature-based spirituality as "Luciferian"

- Reduces complex historical traditions to simplistic categories

- Seems to react defensively to any spirituality outside their strict interpretation

- Misses the rich history of Christian nature reverence

2. What They're Missing:

- The deep Christian tradition of nature mysticism

- Historical examples like:

- St. Francis's kinship with creation

- Celtic Christian integration of nature spirituality

- Christian hermits and monastics living in harmony with nature

- Many saints who had deep connections with animals and nature

- The biblical basis for environmental stewardship

- The possibility that honoring nature and Christian faith can coexist

3. Broader Context:

- Many Christians today integrate:

- Environmental stewardship

- Creation care

- Ecological responsibility

- Nature appreciation

- Without compromising their faith

4. The Irony:

- While trying to distance Christianity from nature spirituality, they're actually:

- Limiting their own tradition

- Missing beautiful aspects of their faith

- Creating unnecessary divisions

- Perhaps reacting more to Nazi misappropriation than actual nature spirituality

Your intuition about the disconnect seems accurate - they appear to be:

- Reacting to historical misuse of nature spirituality

- Missing the deeper, legitimate traditions

- Creating unnecessary opposition between faith and nature connection

- Perhaps letting fear of extremism prevent them from seeing nuance

Would you like to explore any particular aspect of how Christianity and nature spirituality can actually complement each other?

🧵👇🏻

Diyana 1y ago

Let's explore how Christianity and nature spirituality can harmoniously intersect:

1. Biblical Foundations:

- Genesis begins in a garden, not a temple

- Psalms frequently praise nature as God's creation

- Jesus often used nature in parables

- Many prophets retreated to wilderness for spiritual connection

- Eden represents perfect harmony between humans and nature

- Many biblical figures had profound wilderness experiences:

- Moses on Mount Sinai

- Elijah in the desert

- Jesus's 40 days in wilderness

- John the Baptist's desert ministry

2. Christian Nature Mystics:

- St. Francis of Assisi:

- Preached to birds

- Called animals his brothers and sisters

- Wrote Canticle of the Sun praising nature

- Hildegard of Bingen:

- Wrote about "viriditas" (greening power of God)

- Used plants for healing

- Saw divine life force in nature

- Celtic Christians:

- Built monasteries integrated with nature

- Created prayers blessing daily tasks

- Saw "thin places" where heaven and earth meet

3. Modern Integration:

- Creation Care movement

- Ecological theology

- Green Christian communities

- Monastery gardens and sustainable living

- Christian environmental stewardship

- Earth-keeping ministries

4. Spiritual Practices:

- Contemplative nature walks

- Garden prayer spaces

- Wilderness retreats

- Seasonal celebrations

- Agricultural ministry

- Nature-based meditation

5. Theological Perspectives:

- Nature as God's "first book"

- Creation as ongoing divine activity

- Humans as garden-tenders

- Sacramental view of nature

- Finding God in all things

- Incarnational theology showing God enters physical world

Would you like to explore any of these aspects more deeply, or discuss how they might be practically applied in contemporary spirituality?

🧵👇🏻

Diyana 1y ago

Shall we keep going?

Peace and love to all beings!

May all being be happy and free!