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What you said makes no sense. In a Bitcoin transaction the UTXO's get destroyed and all Satoshi's within it remelded into new UTXO's with no consideration of any satoshis being "tainted" or not. That is fungibility

ynh 4mo ago 💬 1

Sorry. I cannot agree.

Each satoshi carries an history. And it is trivial to verify it: Identifying ang tracking any unit of satoshi can be done with ease: this makes bitcoin non fungible.

It is fungible, any thing, when it is not possible to tell apart an item from another of the same species.

One can taint and track a gold bar, for example. But "gold", the substance, is fungible ... even though a gold bar may not be fungible (due to eventual marks, numbers, registres, etc), it is enough to melt it, and form a new bar ( the atoms are not easily discernable from each other).

Mixers (coinjoin) seem to be, for Bitcoin, what melting is to a gold bar, IMHO.

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BitcoinIsFuture 4mo ago 💬 2

This is pure bullshit

"Each satoshi carries an history. And it is trivial to verify it: Identifying ang tracking any unit of satoshi can be done with ease: this makes bitcoin non fungible."

Where exactly does each satoshi carry the history?

MineBTC 4mo ago 💬 2

You can verify tohe history of any utxo. That's how it's done. And before calling anyone names, be open and try and understand others' perspective. I had a umiversity professor, much more knowladgeable tgan you and I, OG bitcoiner, whom I met at MoneroKonf in Prague this year, expain that Nitcoin is non-fungible. Yes, onchain, nothing n stop you but gvt whether you like it or not can make you a criminal from your transactions. His argument was tge existence of kyced versus non-kyced bitcoin with two different market prices. I don't owmn any Monero but I'm receptive to the argument. There is no privacy onchain in Bitcoin, only anonymity. Privacy if anything comes from the cost of figuring out who's who and who owns what.

BitcoinIsFuture 4mo ago

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BitcoinIsFuture 4mo ago

You can also tell your "professor" to go fuck themselves. Bitcoin is fungible money, because:

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Chuckin Bitcoin 4mo ago 💬 1

The definition of Fungible has nothing to do with governments. A government can make all holders of gold coins criminals (6102) but that does not mean gold is no longer fungible. The existence of a tiny market based on a subjective observation does not make something not fungible. 99.999% of all Bitcoin trades give no premium to KYC or non KYC. They regard KYC and non KYC UTXOs at the same value. Just like a dollar might have a small print error and be worth a lot more in a super niche collectors group doesn't mean every single person accepting dollars will know and recognize this premium value. No, they don't give a damn because it's fungible and it's an interchangable dollar and only worth a dollar to 99.999% of the network.

MineBTC 4mo ago 💬 1

Shouldn't the fact that this market exists alert us though? I learned at BTC++ in Riga that the ability of the NSA to analyse data far outweighs our capacity to produce it. I agree with you today, but although we're talking in absoluts, we are really thinking about the futur. When nostr:nprofile1qqsgfhhxuemwtwm8kjk5uppv7uxtmp5pz4wm2dv59lxx5pfnsk98ysqpzemhxue69uhkzarvv9ejumn0wd68ytnvv9hxgqg4waehxw309ajkgetw9ehx7um5wghxcctwvs7kac3v mentionned the window of opportunity closing on bitcoin regarding privacy I understand it was meant both in terms of the law protecting our rights and solutions deployed at the protocol level. If today a market exists for so called kyc bitcoin, what about tomorrow? The way I see it is we are left with the option to vote with our feet and move to jurisdictions where such markets have no influence on our holdings.

BitcoinIsFuture 4mo ago

You expect everything to be perfect?

Sorry, only Bitcoin is perfect.

Chuckin Bitcoin 4mo ago 💬 1

Go read the defintion of Fungible then come back. It has nothing to do with tracking, tainting, marking, or subjective observations. There are no low satoshis or high satoshis or red satoshis or blue satoshis or tainted satoshis. There are only Satoshis which are ALL equal and interchangable with no difference realized on the Bitcoin network. Every transaction melts Satoshi's, not just coinjoins. Coinjoins only purpose is to obfuscate address ownership. This has nothing to do with fungibility. Don't trust me though, go look up the definition of fungible. It is not possible to identify and block any satoshis.

BitcoinIsFuture 4mo ago

Amen to that brother 🤙