A simple cypher query of my graph db shows 13 npubs that have muted themselves 🤷🏻♂️😂
Discussion
Yeah. Kind 10000 is totally broken. Other than folks doing weird stuff themselves, clients are writing garbage to it, sometimes completely breaking the list. With list encryption standards changing to NIP-44, most clients (and even relays) are now limited to 65 KB payloads. I’ve also found several massive mute lists around Nostr.
Conclusion: this is beyond broken. While there’s certainly some potential signal, I don’t think I’ll bother with it for WoT purposes. I’ll stick to Kind 3 and 1984 only.
Generally it’s just bad UX, since the features are not related in any way. I’m sure if clients had a “mute & unfollow” action, people would choose it.
Bad UX, bad standards, bad implementation of standards, bad attitude from devs when you point out that the bad implementation of the bad standards is bad... Bad, most everything.
And the suggested fix is always somewhere on the spectrum between “let’s do nothing” (you know... users who follow or mute people are terrible and using Nostr wrong, so they deserve to suffer) and “let’s nuke everything and start over”... Nuke mute lists, nuke follow loats, nuke remote signers, nuke the standards, nuke central repositories. Replace everything with something conceptual and poorly communicated, with no guarantee of sane evolution or compatibility, and where nobody is accountable for anything.
Keep Nostr a hobbyist playground and drive away the folks actually working hard to keep everything running despite all of the above. Or at least do whatever you can to keep them out of the loop... anything to avoid transparency or actual communication.
Apologies, I’m just in a bad mood about many things regarding Nostr development. I should really step away from it for a bit. I need to push some bug fixes to Haven that I’ve been cooking for a while, and I’ll likely focus on non-Nostr things for a while.
No, you’re not wrong. Coming at this from a perspective of a user attempting to vibecode useful tools to manage follow and mute lists is a real eye-opener. I’m seeing firsthand how broken some of this stuff is.
Agreed. For example, the stuff you raised about signing follow and mute lists over remote signers was handled piss poorly. We could have merged the NIP-44 encryption fix and got it adopted by a few relays and clients. Either that or just rollback to NIP-04. Then, we could have raised the max event size on a few popular relays (yes, they can handle a 300 500 KB payload over WebSocket with proper rate limits just fine), and that would have been enough to accommodate things for now.
After that, we could think about a more granular model for following events, as well as how to evolve encryption more sanely. Instead, we’re back to telling users they’re using Nostr wrong; trim your follow lists to 200 people, or just stop following anyone altogether and go touch grass. Say something, and you’re a negative Nancy... I’m just feeling a bit done with all of this at the moment.
And don’t get me started on deleting and editing kind 1 notes! 😆