We’re talking about the lightning network! Not onchain! So the dust in the fat channels is okay where you will be able swap it onchain! My point is that default path should lean toward minimizing reliance on custodial setups but you guys basically recreated fiat economy on nostr!
bitcoin will be custodial by definition under some amount, as it is not economical to have dust utxos. The challenge of L2s will be to manage the transition between uneconomical custodial channels and upgrading them to noncustodial utxos.
non-custodial, graduated lightning channel wallets are something we are in discussions with nostr:npub1spralxq6jlw5rdy0249vqr5sh43rfrlx2wzv3rhjjqedw559w9psrs8s72, but there are still ux issues that are needed to be solved, like offline receive.
Ark is something we are looking into as well.
If there is ever an easy to use non-custodial wallet, then we will switch to that.
nostr:note1flz3n7h9ggnjx0ng78xgpxhe7c93xfhp328fpc5a9cq5vduss7dsyylqct
Discussion
Ok, but who are hosting these sats in fat channels for people just getting started? These are by definition custodied sats in existing channels (onchain utxos) until it’s economical to create a non-custodial channel.
Or we get mutli-party channels.
Yeah, that’s gonna be devs apology forever ! In 2025 you don’t have to be indigo to start using none custodial wallets and learn how to open channels ! If you onboard people straight into custodial IOU shit they will fucking use this and will not gonna learn anything until rugged ! It’s a simple psychology! Let them learn ! It’s not that hard and the majority of people in this space are young adults!
How do you open a channel with no sats
Build nostr lighting pool where people who are on here will be opening channels to it and payments will go through.
this doesn’t make any sense.
Yeah because you guys promote nostr as bitcoin payment ecosystem that is not fucking ready for micropayments and everyone on here are using fucking primal or other shit IOU VC funded custodial crap!
Once everyone start using the actual lighting network and opening channels and buying liquidity as it is right now they will learn!
Go for a walk. Ideally in the sun. Leave your phone at home. You will feel better
Damus zaps were nuked by Apple! Then the script came in the play! Everyone figured it out right ?! Why the hell you add custodial shit and then say “nobody will use none custodial lighting wallets” Don’t add it and let them learn and ask the question and the community will be always on here to help out!
"Hi! I'm new to Nostr and want to try out zapping, what wallet should I use?"
"Whatever you do, stay away from custodians because they can rug you. Go get yourself a Start9 for $900, install Bitcoin Core, LND, and Alby Hub. Then you'll need to get about 1m sats for your first channel. You might be able to get away with 100k+, but it's really best if you go with at least 1m. Oh, yeah, that's over $1k right now. Don't worry though, you still own that money so it's not costing you anything more than the on-chain fee to open the channel. Now you have to decide who you're going to open it with. Go research well connected nodes that allow people to open channels with them. What do you mean you can't receive? Oh! You need to have inbound liquidity. You'll have to zap some people so that there is liquidity on the other side of your channel before you can receive any zaps. "
Yeah... Not feasible. Custodians are a great first-touch, and people can upgrade their sovereignty as they go and as they learn and get interested in doing so.
Why do you need to buy Start9 ?
Well, it's either that or you have to get some other general piece of hardware that requires even more know-how to get up and running, or you have to use one of the node-on-a-phone options, like Zeus or Phoenix, which have their own tradeoffs.
You still haven’t answered my question. But any way.
I am sorry, I thought I had. Did my response not acknowledge that buying a Start9 is not needed, and that there are other options, it's just that each of those options come with their own tradeoffs as well?