Replying to Avatar calle

Millions trust Signal to keep their conversations private. The same should be true for payments.

Signal deserves a payment experience that’s just as private and instant. Powered by Bitcoin – the native currency of the internet. So we built it.

πŸ‘‰ bitcoinforsignal.org

Sending money to friends should be as easy and private as sending a message.

Our developers imagined what Bitcoin inside Signal could feel like. We integrated Cashu into the iOS and Android Signal apps, delivering a beautiful experience that protects user privacy end to end.

https://blossom.primal.net/dfef93d63c40f8b0ccca59b669ef1ee90455ae839b07dca685a4a8f23cdeb4b3.mp4

Back in 2021, Signal integrated MobileCoin. It stayed niche, speculative, and largely unknown to most users.

As the most widely adopted cryptocurrency, Bitcoin is ideal as the backbone for the new global economy.

#BitcoinForSignal

Using the Cashu protocol, a Chaumian ecash system that provides strong privacy, Signal users can send and receive Bitcoin micropayments instantly.

The Cashu Signal integration doesn't compromise Signal's privacy guarantees. Your messages are private. Your payments should be too.

Would you really suggest to bring cashu, in its current development stage, to a platform with millions of mainly normies?

I like cashu but that seems not right to me.

Maybe something like the approach of #zeus could fit better, but I'm afraid that even this is too much. If you have to manage the swaps by yourself.

But the approach of zeus with automatic swaps in the background, cashu -> lightning -> onchain with preset thresholds. Which can be adjusted by users when needed, maybe could be possible. Sending Bitcoin, no matter to which address, onchain lightning or chashu or whatever must be managed by the app.

When normies want Bitcoin, they expect that everything works out of the box. Ideally better that their legacy banking experience. You don't need to explain them the differences of onchain or lightning. THEY JUST DONT GIVE A SHIT.

And that is ok.

If we want Hyperbitcoinization we have to built tools that the market wants or could like with features like privacy or/and anonymity that we all need. Trojan Horse approach.

And please keep on doing your amazing work πŸ™‚

Just my two sats ✌️

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Discussion

I agree with your two sats.

Word, Cashu is a distraction.

I would not call it a distraction. But maybe it could be one tool of many to build a product of later.

There need to be development like this.

We must not forget that there is a huge difference between the normies world and the Bitcoiners world.

If we build for Bitcoiner, it can be nerdy and kind of reckless because of testing etc.

But if you want to build for normies world you have to make the app as easy to use as possible especially when dealing with money. There must be double or triple nets that the dumbest user cannot get rekt by the app, other than doing dumb transactions, which are users faults.

But if he changes his phone and did not write his seed phrase down, there must be a way that he can get his wallet back. Without a big workaround. He then does not want to hear that he should have wrote down his seed phrase.

This is what the user expects from every banking app. He gets a new phone, logs in and there is his money. At least we have to achieve this user experience.

Otherwise there is no reason to switch to Bitcoin for normies.

I think we even would damage bitcoins reputation for the normies when one after another loses his funds because of not writing down the seed phrase or a mint rug pulls or what ever.

I agree with everything you say. I just think that River link https://river.com/river-link, for example, is a much more appropriate solution, while Cashu serves as a distraction. Aside from being technically impressive and complex, it misses the point. By the way, nostr:nprofile1qqswq087qywczsjtkc9p960tpjcvn35gcdr39smefsr49cr33vmfauspzdmhxue69uhk7enxvd5xz6tw9ec82c30qythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehgu3wd9hxvme0v4fyhk are excellent and the right approach to using mints because they are, by design, distributed. The entire product is built in a way that clearly defines the trust involved and the social aspects of the mint guardians, extending into the physical world. Cashu is a distraction because it creates a lot of noise and shifts attention away from Fedimints and genuine solutions like River link.

Thanks for sharing. First time I hear from river link. I read the page but did not get every relevant info here. Do I have to do KYC to send river links?

Do I need an river account or a wallet on river to send river links? If yes, is the river wallet self custody?

I guess the wallet is custodied by river and thats why they can handle every wallet address (lightning/onchain) you want to send Bitcoin to.

But now I get your point about distraction. You are right, some topics get too much attention while other good stuff is pushed into the shadows.

I mentioned River Link because it is also custodial like Cashu. They are very different solutions technically, but I think River is a much better option for orange-pilling "normies." The tradeoff is that you do get KYC'ed for their proof of reserves, so the chances of getting rug-pulled are much, much lower.