Subnostr

Data storage on bitcoin is.. whatever? Pay miners.

Introduction of MEV is a *huge* issue.

As we’ve seen with ETH both pre- and post-PoS MEV creates intense centralization pressure that would all but defeat the purpose of bitcoin. Luckily there’s no excuse for introducing MEV - any system you design which does introduce it can ~always be designed to avoid the introduction of MEV. While people play around with systems built on top of Bitcoin it’s important to suggest MEV-avoiding alternatives and discourage use of MEV-introducing systems.

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Discussion

doot 2y ago

is this about rollkit?

personally it makes no sense to me how that could introduce MEV

sachin 2y ago

Yeah the concern seems a bit overblown tbf

doot 2y ago

what’s the intuition- all the MEV would be via the sequencer and i assume you can’t actually affect ordering of the roll-up settlement onto btc anyway

Matt Corallo 2y ago

As long as it’s via a sequencer, it doesn’t introduce MEV on bitcoin, which is totally fine! That’s one of many ways to design systems that use bitcoin without actually introducing MEV, which is great. There are other projects folks have been talking about which introduce material MEV.

doot 2y ago

but how?

idk how you could ever do anything material if the assets don’t exist on btc’s blockchain itself

Matt Corallo 2y ago

Well the rollout folks apparently have such an option - just letting people transact on the bitcoin chain and using that to determine higher-level tx ordering.

Matt Corallo 2y ago

Err rollkit

doot 2y ago

fair enough i must not get rollkit yet kek

Matt Corallo 2y ago

To be fair, I only learned this after I opened an issue in their GitHub and they responded :)

Nicolas ₿ ⚡️ 🇦🇷🧉🤙💜 2y ago

does that mean that we'll never be able to build trustless briges?.. SPV proofs , OPCodes to read zkproofs etc?

Matt Corallo 2y ago

I don’t think so, you can have those things in a way that doesn’t create MEV. Eg after-the-fact ordering with block hashes.

Nicolas ₿ ⚡️ 🇦🇷🧉🤙💜 2y ago

Ok I hope we come to a point were we agree on certain upgrades without those risks but at least we come to some agreements so we move forward 👍