Subnostr

1. Humans are inherently *capable* of violence and evil, yes because what drives human behavior (mostly) is incentives. If you do not strongly disincentivize violence, it's a virtual certainty that *some* humans will use it against regular people, and society will be at the mercy of those most willing to use it. Libertarianism fails to disincentivize violence against the innocent. Communism fails to incentivize wealth creation among the capable, and when resources are scarce, violence ensues. They both ignore basic, fundamental obvious facets of human nature.

2. There may be other options, but what's not optional is the credible threat of retributive violence should you commit violence against someone else. Again, feel free to live in the wild west and hunt people with your posse if you prefer, but most people are going to want to outsource that task.

MAHDOOD 4d ago

1. You didn’t answer my question. But you brought up another point regarding incentives. The system we currently live in, incentivizes the government to be violent. This is apparent given the nature of its actions: 9/11, psyop shootings, MK ultra.

In addition, you’re arguing that violence disincentivizes violence. You’re looking at things in black and white. People are individuals who will always have the power to choose what they want to do regardless of incentives. They can choose to be violent in the current system or peaceful in a different system. They could also choose the opposite, respectively. Since the current system isn’t eliminating violence, then arguing that libertarianism won’t work because it also can’t eliminate violence is not a strong argument. The goal isn’t to eliminate violence because that’s not possible. Some people will act violently regardless of the system. The goal is to not legitimize the violence by saying you have to pay taxes for x y z service that you don’t want.

2. And you can outsource that task once the government is out of the way. But right now you can’t and that service is less affordable due to the nature of the tax system. Remember that the government offers a service. A shitty service sure, but it is a service. And any service that the government offers can be done more efficiently and more cheaply on the free market. So if someone wrongs me, I can pay for a service to enact justice. Rothbard argued that these types of services would be best completed by insurance companies. They have the resources to make you whole. And there’s no compulsion or violence needed. People pick and choose what services they want. And if they don’t want it, they don’t have to get it. It’s peaceful and the solutions are solved. Everything would be better if all property was privatized. The incentives align better that way. No one cares for public property because they’re not incentivized to.

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Discussion

Chris Liss 4d ago

Your question was based on a faulty premise — whether humans ARE evil is not relevant. It’s what they are CAPABLE of doing that is not in doubt.

You can argue the merits of a private police force and the tradeoffs that would entail. But they would still be police and they would still be highly imperfect and not perfectly accountable. But some entity is going to need to apply force to violent criminals if you want to have a functional society, and that entity will be top-down fascistic to some extent, given its power and role.

But it’s self-evident the prospect of retaliation disincentivizes violence. Some people will STILL act violently, but far fewer than if there were no prospect of jail time. And when those who do act violently get got, that’s a measure of justice, which is necessary for people to move on and avoid, for example, multi-generational blood feuds.

MAHDOOD 4d ago

Okay so you basically think that the current system with the largest criminals like pedo Epstein clients, central bankers, and warmongers that are literally dropping bombs on children is better than an imperfect system that respects individual autonomy and provides optionality? Please answer this question with a simple yes or no.

These private police forces would behave very differently because they are private and are held accountable by the free market. Private property is different from public property. People take care of private property but people don’t care for public property the same way. And they never care for it to the same extent that someone would care for their private property. This applies to any public and private service as well. All you have to do is consider the difference during your interactions with police and private security. One treats you like you’re subhuman and the other treats you like a valuable asset to their livelihood because your satisfaction with their services is what puts food on their table. The other thing you seem to overlook is the profits of violence in this type of society. You’re not going to get very far in life swindling and murdering people in a society without government. The reason is because people are forced to take personal responsibility for themselves. Don’t trust verify. Notice how in Bitcoin where things are not well regulated yet, Bitcoiners take responsibility for themselves to call out scammers. They’re hyper vigilant and they’re literally the reason I didn’t lose my life savings a few years ago before an exchange blew up. And their hyper vigilance is what led me to become a bitcoiner. The government wasn’t looking out for me. And they’re literally paid to do it. They’re paid to look for crimes and protect us. At least that’s what they claim.

Even if you don’t have a police force to stop a specific criminal. Businesses will not allow that criminal on their property to harass their customers. If everything is privatized, that criminal will not be using highways. They’re not buying homes in neighborhoods with peaceful people. HOAs will keep an eye out for that specific criminal too. Services like neighborhood watches will do their best to protect their customers. People are incentivized to protect themselves and their customers even more when government is out of the picture. The combination of remarkable creativity and problem solving that humans have will flourish. There are cameras everywhere nowadays. It’s hard to get away with anything really. If you get caught, your picture will be shared across businesses. Tbh going to jail in the current system is a much lighter punishment than being ostracized by a society free of government. Whatever problems you are worried about, the free market can solve and provide a better solution to.