What do you mean by “meaningless”? I believe every life has meaning, even if it’s just working as a garbage man.
Also I have to add that the difficulties talked about in the book are not self imposed difficulties. Enjoying self imposed difficulties would make me a masochist.
#plebchain #grownostr
Again, I’m not suggesting that you need to think the same way I do and I’m happy that you find meaning in your life.
I’m just pointing out that it is possible to find life meaningless and abandon any quest for it and still be happy. That’s the case for me and it is quite liberating.
Once I abandoned the search for meaning, I also realized how much the search for it did me no good but did make me a great target for “meaning” merchants. These merchants are those who promise meaning via religion or piety, via reproduction, via service (especially military), via sacrifice, or via employment. All have the common thread of doing nothing for me except providing something labeled as “meaning”. All those things do make others a lot of money though, or give them a lot of power to control others.
So yeah, I don’t need meaning to enjoy nature, exercise, good relationships, accomplishment, etc. These are the things that bring me joy and make me truly happy. They also don’t benefit anyone else other than me.
The same goes for the concepts of hope and purpose as far as I’m concerned.
#grownostr
#thinkdangerously
That’s an interesting point of view and I respect it.
So for example when you enjoy nature, exercises, etc. Those moments are meaningless to you?
Hey - genuine thanks for considering another point of view. That’s not an easy thing to do and it makes me happy to come across someone capable of it.
To answer your question, yes, I think my entire existence is meaningless. The only thing that is real to me (and I could argue for anyone) is my own internal state.
My internal state doesn’t depend on anything having meaning. It depends on me doing enjoyable things.
I could take a lot of heroin, eat a lot of fatty or sugary foods, etc but those are not sustainable sources of joy for me. The sustainable ones that I have found work for me (and I suspect would work for most people if they had the time to stop and think about it without all the things that keep people distracted) are:
1. Nature
2. Exercise
3. Good relationships
4. Art/creativity
5. Accomplishment/self-sufficency
6. Efficiency
None of these require meaning, hope, or purpose. They are available to almost everyone and just require awareness or a little effort.
If I wrote a book where the main character had all of these things, it would be hard to say that character wasn’t extremely fortunate or happy.
Thanks again for a nice conversation. :)
#grownostr
#thinkdangerously
I forgot to add:
7. Introspection and personal growth
And I’m considering adding:
8. Perspective
Perspective is interesting because it is a joy modifier/synergist for all the other things on the list. It will be VERY exciting for me to add this to my list since I organize my entire life around it.
I would encourage everyone to build such a list of their own and please please let me know if you have anything else for me to consider adding or taking away.
Thank you for taking the time to give an in depth answer.
So if I understand well, the only thing real to you is your internal state. Your internal state depends on you doing enjoyable things and more precisely, sustainable source of joy.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but, since you make a distinction between “joyful things” and “sustainable joyful things” couldn’t we say that; doing “sustainable joyful things” gives meaning to your life.
#plebchain
Sure, that could work. At a certain point it gets down to semantics though.
The important distinction for me is between the culturally programmed version of meaning that so many people aspire to without questioning (like work, religion, kids, military service, etc) and the version that uniquely benefits the individual by producing joy.
And it’s not that military service or work can’t benefit the individual or lead to joy or a “legitimate” sense of meaning. It’s just that I’m very suspicious when these things also serve to make others rich or give them the ability to exert control over others. For this reason, they have always seemed hollow for me compared to the other items on my list.
This was fun btw. Thank you again. :)
#grownostr
#thinkdangerously
