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You don't have to apologize to me for disagreeing with me. I'm an adult; I can handle it.

But I think this discussion sort of highlights my scepticism about the "literally" thing, because the schism in the Church is partially an artefact of which parts some faction took literally. Catholics tend to take everything Jesus said directly to His disciples absolutely literally because the people of the Early Church took them literally and the New Testament was put together years later, under their direction and divine inspiration.

These things Jesus said, with emphasis, are the Biggest Biblical Claims because they're the metaphysical claims. They're the wildest, most-outrageous parts of the whole Library, but they're also the parts that are impossible to disprove on Earth.

You can't go dig in the ground and find Heaven, but you might find Eden. In other words. But who really cares about Eden, when there is _literally_ Heaven?

And, like, Jesus said Mary is our mother, but y'all are like, He didn't mean that literally. Yes, He did! He legit took a break from dying to make the point. Seems like He thought it was an important point and that we should remember it and maybe even, eventually, write it down.

Determining what is _literally_ true, is what the Church has been fighting over for a couple of millennia, and we haven't even managed to reach universal consensus on Baptism.

Liberty Gal 11mo ago

When you say Jesus said Mary is our mother, what are you referring to? Are you just referring to His statement to John?

"26When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He *said to His mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” 27Then He said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household." (John 19:26-27).

If so, I disagree strongly. He was not making Mary all of our mother. He was being a good son and making sure His widowed mother was taken care of since He [Jesus] wouldn't be there on earth to take care of her. " From that hour the disciple took her into his own household."

Maybe there is some other verse that I don't remember.

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Discussion

Laeserin 11mo ago

He's making it clear that Mary is not "merely" His mother, which would already make her worthy of veneration, but that she's also John's mother and John is a stand-in for all Christians. He didn't forget about her, at The End. He emphasized her and reminded us all of her importance.

She is the Immaculate Conception and the Ark of the Covenant, after all. Even the angels greet her like a Queen. And remember Luke 1:

And Mary said:

“My soul glorifies the Lord

and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,

for he has been mindful

of the humble state of his servant.

From now on all generations will call me blessed,

for the Mighty One has done great things for me — holy is his name.

Liberty Gal 11mo ago

No where in the Bible is the immaculate conception mentioned. She was a faithful young woman. She was blessed by God. She is an example of a servant of God, but even she admits she is blessed because, "the Mighty One has done great things for me — holy is his name." She never claims to be holy herself.

There is nothing written in the Bible about calling her mother. There is not one verse saying we should pray to her or through her. In fact the Bible says,

"For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," (1 Timothy 2:5)

The Bible even specifically tells people to not consult the dead, but to consult God:

"When they say to you, “Consult the mediums and the spiritists who whisper and mutter,” should not a people consult their God? Should they consult the dead on behalf of the living?" (Isaiah 8:19)

I'll admit that my two biggest disagreements with the Catholic church are putting the Pope above the Bible and praying to Mary (and saints) like they are little gods. (I know people like you don't consider them gods, but mediators, but the actions seem like they are being treated as gods. It seems to me like a form of idolatry.)