Nostr is better as an API than as a protocol. It might end up as either. If it's an API it doesnt need to scale, because it inherits scale from http. So you use the API and are happy. I think that's where it will end up, but it could go either way. Both are good outcomes.
Discussion
Doesn’t an API mean that some entity is providing the service? Or maybe I have the wrong understanding here.
You are correct, I defined it loosely, or didnt define it. But it's more of an analogy. API being a tool that you use, one of many. Rather than the main system on which you build. If that makes any sense!
What do you mean as an API?
Can you give a small example?
The analogy is that you have a working system and add an API, ie add nostr. Rather than using nostr as a starting point. So, say, activitypub could use nostr for realtime updates. Git could use it for single sign on. Twitter could use it for micro payments. And so on.
Ok I see.
Do you think for streaming audio nostr could be useful for infrastructure?
I am not sure if it match with the notes thing, so I am not sure it's relevant for this use case.
I think nostr could help do the handshake, then you figure out where the audio files are. Then stream it client server, or through an audio relay. So if nostr is just an API you can figure out what tool to use, it might be nostr, it might not be. As a developer you have freedom to choose.
I think development would explode if there were services in between relays and the end products. So long as we kept the services honest nothing about the protocol would be negatively affected
You mean existing end product using relays? Or something to connect a relay to an existing product, like a bridge? That could be huge yes.
well even though I haven't open sourced it, for my dev purposes I run a node server that connects to relays and delivers certain data via an https request, since my app isn't a client. it needs to do some crunching and then return a result, so it's more like a DVM if I can ever figure that out
cool! yes im having the same trouble with dvms. this pattern with a node server sounds very good, exactly what i mean by using nostr as an API
Yea … but is it still freedom tech, if ppl bring their own black box storage for monetizing user data?
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If it's just an API, then what you use it for, freedom or otherwise, is up to you.
I think you missed the point of my question … if it matters.
Today, nostr is a reservoir for freedom culture. In the not so far future, when Nostr is global and the standard “nostr app” is a hybrid app, indistinguishable from any other black box reseller of user data, Nostr will no longer be this reservoir. It will no longer hold value as freedom tech.
SO WHAT if this is inevitable. Freedom culture is always under threat.
So my more direct question is:
“How do we retain freedom culture even as the tools we build to support it are eroded by NGU culture?”
nostr:note1glx669cnzvy6kmacx6kshr0nsjkguh8zgxekdw522f3ynek2akjqges9ma
Nostr's really just a subset of HTTP—how you use it matters. The freedom angle feels a bit overhyped. People might think it protects them, but it could end up storing signed evidence forever, potentially more risky than regular socials. And let's not forget, some devs slip spyware into big sites. Personally, I see it more as a tool for social app portability, letting you move between sites easily. That's the real value.
I appreciate your sobriety. Portability is the real value. Freedom may be overhyped, but also … Nostr is special.
hmm you mean for example you could better integrate it into your own website, like i could make a custom web component that pulls notes from a relay and displays them inside it on my web page?
yes
dang the more i think about this thread the more into this idea i get. the whole paridigm of social media as we know it would flip. they wont be able to say "nostr cant scale". there are already a couple wordpress nostr plugins but if we can get those going for all the major cms sheeeesh then people wouldnt have to install separate plugins for comments, reactions/likes, etc. it'd play well with htmx too i bet no?
Absolutely! Also have a look at ditto, which is a big step in the right direction.