Nostr Web Client

Glad we’ve arrived at a similar perspective now—it feels like progress. To clarify my original confusion:

When you initially wrote, “What if vibe coders just aren’t using enough tokens?”, you seemed to imply that tokens alone—without mentioning loops, scaffolding, external memory, or agent orchestration—would inherently unlock genuine reasoning and recursion inside transformers.

We're perfectly aligned if your real point always included external loops, scaffolding, or agent architectures like Goose (rather than just “tokens alone”). But I definitely didn’t get that from your first post, given its explicit wording. Thanks for explicitly clarifying your stance here.

ynniv 5mo ago

Working with LLMs has given me a first class notion of context. It's a strange new idea to me that's also changed how I approach conversations.

Our expectations around an agent loop does seem to be the root of it. Do people vibe code without such a thing though? I'll admit that I'm spoiled, since I started to use goose over 18 months ago I never bothered to try the other popular things that are more than Co-Pilot and less than goose, like Cursor

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Discussion

ESE 5mo ago

That is fair, and I think you’re touching exactly on the heart of the issue here.

Your recent experiences with Goose and these richer agent loops highlight what I pointed out: it’s not the quantity of tokens alone that unlocks genuine reasoning and recursion. Instead, reasoning emerges from loops, external memory, scaffolding, and orchestration—precisely as you implicitly acknowledge here by talking about agent loops as a requirement, rather than a luxury.

I appreciate that you’ve implicitly clarified this:

“Tokens alone” aren’t the root solution; structured loops and scaffolding around the transformer architecture are.

Thanks for a thoughtful conversation! It genuinely feels like we’ve arrived at the correct conclusion.