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The difference between a chartered local government mounting a defense and a local private militia mounting a defense is insignificant.

This is where they lose me, as it just gets down to splitting hairs, at some point.

Tristan Brice Velloza Kildaire 1y ago

It's not really splitting hairs. We pay a company for protection. They roam the neighborhood. If their service is bad we can switch to another company.

There are at least 3 different companies where I live. I live on a small (but growing) town. The security company is more visible. I hardly, only now and then, see state police in our hood.

Come down to the "third world" and you may see many bad things but also many good, like now the market fills the place where the state has failed.

The difference is substantial.

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Tristan Brice Velloza Kildaire 1y ago

I think we should make a distinction, I am talking about a town. Not some huge nation. I don't care what happens in a province elsewhere, doesn't affect me - that is their problem to sort out.

"Local is Lekker", as we say.

Also, do some research on Orania - ;), amazing what people can do when they pull up their bootstraps.

Tristan Brice Velloza Kildaire 1y ago

Disclaimer, I live elsewhere. Not in Iranian 😂, but I like to show examples of enclaves in ZA.

Where I live it isn't very ethno-centric, Orania is, different folks different strokes. Needless to say, small town is good and the security industry in ZA, may just be the biggest in the world if not up there.

Laeserin 1y ago

This demands a market large enough to support three groups in one territory.

I live in a remote village with a few hundred people. Policing is done by the volunteer fire department.

Tristan Brice Velloza Kildaire 1y ago

Indeed, that is the case.

I think a mix of my town growing and the stats failing (all over ZA).

There is a silverlining to third world stuff. An important part though is human will. Many people are lazy and want handouts, however (and I admire them for this) the Afrikaners are some great bootstrappers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDx6SbvETMA

Tristan Brice Velloza Kildaire 1y ago

This reminds me of a group I read about of Portuguese men who ran a volunteer fire Dept. I like the idea of that.

It also gets a little deeper. Active involvement in your community, out of YOUR pocket.

I'm a hardcore ancap (that hasn't happened over night but over years) but that doesn't mean I am greedy. I put a lot of money away every month for charity. My church is a great way to help people, you find people you can help. At the same time you maintain your culture (religion) by doing so. There is a lot of good that can be done.

If I wasn't paying taxes, I would have even more for charity but that won't stop me from doing what I can now.

Little rant but worthwhile saying.

Laeserin 1y ago

Yes, but my point is a larger one. In many other countries, nobody would act to police an area, unless some distant government did so or some private companies saw a potential for profit in it.

Germanic peoples just see that something needs to be done, build a team, and do it. And rather than having 3 groups patrolling one larger town, they would tend to split the town up into three sections and the residents of each section would patrol their own section.

I didn't realize that this is a Germanic trait until a bunch of foreigners moved here and I saw that cities full of foreigners don't have these clubs. Everything public just falls apart and each person just takes care of himself and demands the local government do something about the crime and decay.

But in the rural areas, the citizenry *are* the local government.

Tristan Brice Velloza Kildaire 1y ago

Indeed. In order to maintain a so-called private society you need willing and hard working individuals.

Culture is important in that sense. Libertarian ideas are great irrespective, but if you want to make it happen in reality you must move to a town or create your own (as the Oranians did). It is wise to admit people into such a convenant community that share your values and ostracize those within who don't uphold them.

Tldr, egalitarian thinking will kill any successful private city/town. Certain values are just too important. A private city run by communist poets won't last long because they are all too lazy to ensure electricity is delivered, streets are cleaned etc.

nami 1y ago

Private non profit initiatives by people of a community isn't anarchy? (It's the definition day today😀)

The same exact thing has happened here also in some, rural at most, areas. Some times by wild boar hunter teams 😀. It's a natural response i should say. If a private, with profit, or a public state solution is better or not, depends on the case i think...

Laeserin 1y ago

They're state-registered nonprofits that can write donations off their taxes and have the mayor and town council give speeches at their parties and donate to their coffers. When Corona hit, these clubs (Rifle Club, Football Club, Church Ladies Club, etc.) all got called to the mayor's office and they organized purchasing groceries for shut-ins and stuff.

They're like an auxiliary arm of the local government, rather than something 💯 private or 💯 public. They also influence the government, as the government is dependent upon them for society to function well. German government relies heavily on this sort of volunteerism.

nami 1y ago

So Germany relies heavily on such volunteers 🤔. This is interesting. On one hand it is very good because it creates social aware and active citizens that can offer solutions on certain occasions and i am sure that they learn useful stuff with seminars etc in the process. On the other hand, relying on football clubs etc as a response to whatever, well not that good. Kind of reminds me of sending 15 year old children to deal with the soviets on the heimatfront or something. An interesting experiment nonetheless though. Keep us informed about this if you like...

Laeserin 1y ago

It's not an experiment. 😅 Some of these clubs are hundreds of years old. The local volunteer fire department has member lists going back to the 1400s.

This is just how Germany works and always has been how it worked. My Opa was in the Rifle Club, for instance. And in the Soldier and Warrior Club, the Small Farmer's Club, and the Maria Club.

Laeserin 1y ago

We also have the Hunter's Club. That's huge. And the Archery Club.

Laeserin 1y ago

The Marksmen's Club is another. Very famous. They originated as town militias.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sch%C3%BCtzenverein

Laeserin 1y ago

The local Maypole has a shield from each club or guild listed. The guilds are another local public/private grouping that is very common.

nami 1y ago

Interesting. That's much better than the unofficial "watching tv stupid shows on the couch" club that most people here belong.

Laeserin 1y ago

My experience is that it can be difficult to beat the efficiency of public services organized by the (small) local governments, as the workers in such services are volunteers and they are working for themselves.

Rather than private security companies, they're more like semi-official clubs with charters signed by the mayor.

They are neighbors joining forces and protecting their own neighborhoods as gangs, called Bürgerwehr (citizens defense), Wasserwacht (water watch) or Feuerwehr (fire defense) and etc.

This is a Germanic social habit that doesn't necessarily transport to other cultures, where citizens are less-inclined to organize spontaneously.

The line between public and private is more blurred here because of all of the state-recognized clubs, so a lot of the discussion people from other places have just seems confusing to us.