But what about the slave ?
alikim You can make auction house based on a dedicated player's account (run by a trustworthy authority) and ingame whisper channel. First you whisper it with your action offer then you trade it for items, same with bids, you whisper it for a bid then trade for money. This bot will keep items and money in its storage and all the info in an externalfile.
danielpbarron Can it link up with an irc bot?
alikim Theoretically yes, since the game client can connect to the internet and communicate to w/e. I've no idea how these bots work. For me it stands to reason that you communicate with the auction house from inside the game though, because the auction house doesn't have to trust your word when you are bidding or offering, you actually need to transfer goods
danielpbarron All the auctions we do are honor system anyway. You could prolly make money just running an auction house come to think of it, and if you're gonna have you character standing around for that, you'd also want a general store bot that just buys and sells automatically like the way Electron does.
alikim The irc system you have atm doesn't need auction house, I'm talking about ingame AH that can record all trades, run statistics including markup on items, all the usual stuff. That AH doesn't need irc bots. I'd say these two options should not be mixed.
danielpbarron Well I could put the stuff with the bot in-game and then a bot in this channel periodically mentions what auctions are running, reminding people to bid. Plus I can check irc from anywhere; Eulora not so easy.
alikim it will buy and sell automatically, but only pre-whispered bids and offers and after each trade put items into its storage
danielpbarron well you could have it automatically put coppers in the trade window based on what people put in there, just gotta offer a slightly better deal than electron, keeping in mind that Electron isn't gonna be there forever. i think most things in Eulora are supposed to be player run eventually. not sure how skill training will go, maybe noobs will have to train with veterans or something. that'd be something, have my character sitting in a building in town buying/selling stuff and collecting coppers to train noobs. that'd be pretty sweet
alikim a bot in this channel could whisper ingame AH for a list of aucioned items and post results here, as well as you can do it ingame
mircea_popescu Yeah makes sense auction's settled inside the game. What you say re mixing also makes sense, except for one point - it is Minigame((MPEx:S.MG))'s strategic decision to replace in-game chat with irc chat (and gossipd eventually). Which is why he's thinking the way he is, and which is why they'll get mixed anyway. He definitely has a point about checking irc from everywhere - which is definitely desired. Eulora clients will look exactly that pluriform.
alikim Well, as I said you have a client connected to the internet, so it can connect to anything, but your honor system will have to go too eventually I guess, so you won't be able to offer and bid w/o actual goods and money.
danielpbarron not necessarily
mircea_popescu Nah, it'll go the other way around, WoT can be implemented. Recall how you can't get an account without a gpg sig ? This'll open the road to the first ever automated trust system - auction bot will evaluate user based on history. Half of why you need irc in game is so you can do $trust X. Not sure if you're at all familiar with this huge chunk of metagame ? It's also rather uncommon / not seen in "the normal game".i
alikim No, all this encryption stuff, gpg, irc etc is rather an inconvenience you have to go thru to get to the game. I'm pretty sure all this only averts normal game players from trying the game, people expect to just automatically get an account download and play. But on the other hand you are not interested in normal people so... ;)
mircea_popescu Well, it seems to you an inconvenience, but this due to unfamiliarity. It's actually the cornerstone of the game being this good. Think about it - idiots playing is the worst problem of every game out there.
alikim Not in a game based on real money, idiots will normally pay.
mircea_popescu You think this also because unfamiliarity. We have a lot of experience with bitcoin, and the common man, and know better. Idiots have no expendable income and there's a very strict stupid poor bijection.
alikim There are lots of smart people who are poor btw, even genius people.
mircea_popescu Genius can be stupid, that's no problem whatsoever. When you discuss stupid you discuss "what's the dumbest thing this person does", when you discuss smart you discuss "what's smartest thing this person does". These aren't opposite, much like when discussing lowest point of a map vs highest point of a map. Plenty of maps have mountains, but this doesn't mean much - they may also have valleys.
alikim Well you might be born in fascist Germany and sent to a camp, which among other thing makes you poor, "what the dumbest thing you did" is an open question.
mircea_popescu How come you're on the internet is also an open question in that setting.
alikim I can easily come up with a different setting when you have access to the internet, the valleys you are talking about can be circumtances.
mircea_popescu Never. Nature is nature is nature, if you end up in the shit it's because you fucked up.
alikim Like born black in USA a few decades ago? Or wait, lucky you, there was no internet there so doesn't count.
mircea_popescu The setting of my experiment does not map to luck, being as deliberate as it gets. Moreover "you fucked up" also doesn't map to "you could have done something better". Ogre getting destroyed by archers IS OGRE FUCKING UP, even if the whole game is set up with the premise of archers being good vs ogres. "Oh what's the ogre supposed to do" is not a cogent consideration.
alikim What is ogre is ugly? He fucked up?
mircea_popescu If he spends his time going to college town bars trying to pick up, yeah. ("Oh but he has to, because he's a college aged ogre" "Nobody has to anything" etc.)
alikim What if you are born a slave and you are poor because of that? Automatically makes you dumb?
mircea_popescu You were born a slave ; but you did the poor part yourself. Heck, there's plenty of slaves that ended up very rich throughout history, from Rome to Haiti.
alikim You probably like new thought movement
mircea_popescu Which is that ? Anyway, this entire debate hinges on confusion between should, which is an ought, and could, which is an is. There's absolutely no space in ethics/morals for is-en. Just because you should doesn't mean you could, nor makes it any difference, and vice-versa. Entirely unrelated considerations.
alikim https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Thought.
lobbesbot` Title: New Thought - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)
mircea_popescu I dunno, not particularly preoccupied with various us neoprotestantisms / whatevers.
alikim You sound exactly like positive thinking + law of attraction.
mircea_popescu Ahaha mno.
alikim You sound like one nevertheless, "if you are born a slave and you are poor that's because you fucked up, because you can do anything you desire in any situation and you can end up rich".
mircea_popescu Well it's fine that I may sound like one, to you, but the notion amuses me, what.
alikim Your logic is exactly the same.
mircea_popescu I just said above that no, there's no "because you can do anything you desire in any situation and you can end up rich", so it can't be all that EXACTLY the same.
hanbot Ahaha this is a riot, mircea_popescu believes people can do anything!!1
mircea_popescu Gave me a chucke also! :D
alikim So a poor slave is poor because ...?
mircea_popescu He sucks ?
alikim Well that's exaclty what I wrote before
mircea_popescu notreally.
alikim You believe any slave can be rich
mircea_popescu I do not.
alikim If he wants to be.
mircea_popescu I believe that any slave that fails to be rich deserves being poor. In short, your proposed "he is a slave" is not a CATEGORICAL ban to achievement. You need it to be a categorical ban for your argument.
hanbot alikim he said some slaves ended up rich, very different things.
alikim I believe that any slave that fails to be rich deserves being poor
Thursday, 21 April, Year 8 d.Tr.
