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Yes that’s plausible….shame as an indicator of our moral compass, if you will.

What I’m trying to express is that when given an opportunity between shaming, belittling, judging or getting curious and offering compassion, I would in almost all scenarios choose love/compassion.

Now yes this is very nuanced. I can give a few examples.

I have a distinct memory from one of my figure skating competitions (somewhere around middle school age) where I completely let my nerves get the best of me and forgot my choreography. I was technically highly skilled so I managed to place 2nd. My coach took the trophy and said you should be ashamed of that performance. She was right. It was not even close to what my best was. She was teaching me a valuable lesson and she knew me well enough to pass shame.

It’s unfortunately common for mothers to shame other mothers for not breastfeeding or co-sleeping or not vaccinating or whatever. To me this is in the category of strangers just passing judgment and that is never the way. We never know what someone is going through, where they came from, what they’re carrying. Why on earth would you choose to add any negatively to anyone’s day?

Yes there are rare times I would deem shaming necessary. Situations when it seems that moral compass isn’t quite calibrated.

I do think internal shame (noun) will inherently be there and adding external shame (verb) only beats a dead horse so to say. We don’t know stranger’s resilience mentally, especially the state of society today. Constant external shame erodes self worth and a society full of low self worth individuals is not productive.

Generally, I don’t see shaming as solving anything. When the moral compass is missing I’d get curious on traumas, mineral or nutrient deficiencies and circumstances that shaped their worldview. Most people don’t want to do that because it’s not quick or as easy as passing shame. Choosing love, compassion, forgiveness and kindness isn’t always easy but the more you do it, the more it is. I mean have you ever seen one of those videos of a family forgiving the driver of a car that killed their loved one?! 😭

This got long but I hope clarifies my position and I left spirituality/religion out because that would have made it even longer.

Scoundrel 4mo ago 💬 1

I appreciate you leaving spirituality and religion out of your response, since I consider myself an athiest and I don't believe it would have helped me to understand your position.

I believe that shame only specifically relates to bad actions. I believe that your characterization of shame as relating to morality is wrong. In your figure skating example, would you say that forgetting your choreography was immoral? Maybe it's just a difference between how we use our words, but I would choose to talk about just good and bad rather than morality in those circumstances.

As I understand your position, it seems that you are not against shame in general, but rather you are against shaming strangers. However, I have many enriching experiences of my own where I have been shamed by strangers. I believe that the most important factor is not whether the people interacting have a prior relationship, but rather it's whether the judgement and shaming itself is properly tailored and personal. If a stranger understands another's circumstances and thought process then I believe it's often perfectly legitimate for the stranger to shame them, specifically when that criticism strikes at the core of the other's mistakes.

In this particular situation for example, I would say that there isn't anything inherently wrong with slut shaming, but rather in order for any slut shaming to occur, there should actually be novel insight into why sleeping around would be bad, and should ignore or even compliment anything that is only incidental to the core criticism. Do you still disagree?

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theda 4mo ago

You’re welcome. I can respect that.

I failed to illustrate the “immoral” part in the example; which was me gloating about doing terrible and still receiving a trophy.

That is fascinating to me and would love to hear more about that if you’re willing to share. Perhaps I don’t give people enough credit because to me it is incredibly hard to understand another’s circumstances without really knowing them.

I don’t think we disagree. Go ahead and slut shame, I think I’m just confused on the why? Maybe some people just really feel the need to shame people and that’s their role in this world 🤷🏼‍♀️ I will never comprehend that because I feel the opposite and want to spread love. Thank you for the conversation, it has helped me clarify a lot around shame. 🙏🏽