Replying to Avatar David King

Is Nostr dependent on bitcoin?

nope. it's a totally independent idea to support free speech. though it does tickle some similar instincts in people

If you drop by Nostr even casually, it can often feel like you’re crashing a bitcoiner dinner party. The memes, the FOSS devs, the topics of conversation often seem to overlap with bitcoin culture. Is this just a case of “birds-of-a-feather” or is there more to it?

Nostr is an open protocol. It’s independent of the use or existence of any cryptocurrency. It uses cryptography, but nothing super fancy there. It’s actually kinda basic, tbh.

So why did so many bitcoiners show up? A simple explanation might be that fiatjaf, the creator of Nostr, was a bitcoiner and brought like-minded people along. But I think there’s more to it than just the initial seed.

The critical feature which Nostr gets right is that you can create an account just by doing math on your own. Of course, you can use a little program on your own computer to help do this math (i.e., creating public-private key pairs). This is cryptography at its best — a tool that empowers the individual.

You don’t have to go to a 3rd-party-issuer to create an account for you. You don’t have to subscribe to a particular cryptocurrency or political ideology. You could identify as a libertarian, anarchist, democrat, republican, labor party, or you may not accept any political labels at all.

On Nostr, you’re welcome to even dislike the concept of bitcoin/cryptocurrencies altogether. As long as you have a curiosity about, or interest in freedom of speech you may find Nostr to be a good place for you to share your thoughts. On Nostr, your ideas and your words are published without being subject to anyone’s permission. The separation of power between clients and data stores is what enforces your rights. It’s baked into the architecture. Not promised and granted to you by a demagogue. That’s the whole idea.

Being there from the start, I can say it wasn't fiatjaf; he was involved with Ethereum, Ripple, Stellar, and more recently Bitcoin. You might remember the drivechain debacle—he pushed for a controversial soft fork of Bitcoin, causing some challenges, including for Nostr. While fiatjaf has made notable contributions, some of his ideas may have been polarizing.

The key to our success was an exceptionally talented and hardworking team that carried the project for two years, tirelessly working behind the scenes. The real game-changer was Jack, whose intuition and leap of faith elevated the project. Initially, we had under 100 users until Jack came along. Also I think damus played a critical role in that, too.

Bitcoin adjacency is Nostr's killer feature, sharing an identity system with Taproot. Bitcoin is a trillion-dollar ecosystem, and Nostr adds serious value to it. Without this synergy, the project might have turned out very differently, possibly even died, like many open-source projects.

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

Thanks for contributing this history.

I didn’t realize fiatjaf was so liberal with his cryptocurrency endeavors :)

I agree Jack brought a lot of social consensus to galvanize early visibility (and contributed a lot of funding over time)!

I’ve heard the Taproot/identity point mentioned before, but I don’t know much about the relationship. Can you tell more about this? Are npubs/nsec specs inherited from something in Taproot?

Yes, they are exactly the same idenity except nostr starts "npub" and taproot starts "bc". Both use schnorr sigs. So that means that all nostr accounts are all wallets, and all taproot accounts can participate in nostr social and apps. Nostr has a distributed ledger with best in class consensus via taproot. Any nostr user can send money to any other nostr user, they just dont do it, or are not aware. On top of that all of the layer 2 solutions that emerge on bitcoin, rgb, taproot assets, runes, omni, colored coins, liquid, smart contracts, can be used with nostr, and vice versa. Again this is not used at the moment, but it unlocks a huge amount of functionality. Whether or not the current community wants that functionality, I dont know. But there is enormous untapped potential.

Most nostr keys are wildly insecure. I'd hate for someone to use my nostr key as my wallet and send me money, because it would possibly be easily stolen by some third party.

To make use of any of that, people should signal somehow that their keys are secure enough for those purposes.

Why can we not just use a kind 0 field

Makes sense to me

So ordinal inscriptions could exist on nostr, at least nostrized ordinal inscriptions?

we built this over a year ago - bitcoin + ordinals wallet on your nostr key. there wasn’t much demand for it though, and some maxis got really mad

but some people used it and minted inscriptions like these frogs for a tiny lightning payment, and now the frogs are worth like $2k each so we kinda had the last laugh

Neat. I understand ordinals is a word that's touchy with people around here. Still, innovation and creating and building! My thought is that stupid jpg mints will play themselves out, or not, whatever the market/people decide. Also, I think it's less about jpg nfts and more about the other stuff that might could be built some day. Any link to the project?

the website is https://deezy.place

it’s also a decentralized marketplace that uses nostr to publish listings. but warning we aren’t doing much more development on it these days and prob will shut it down

Concrete example:

Your npub: npub1kuy0wwf0tzzqvgfv8zpw0vaupkds3430jhapwrgfjyn7ecnhpe0qj9kdj8

Your testnet address: tb1pkuy0wwf0tzzqvgfv8zpw0vaupkds3430jhapwrgfjyn7ecnhpe0qxdufq2

Notice they are almost identical characters.

So I just sent you 1 million testnet sats here:

https://mempool.space/testnet4/tx/e0ac22a16f10e975a04736161c31eb6ad62c06a529b73875da009174a3e0e7e0

I just used a directive in my subkey (see below) to send you the sats. So much is possible!

https://primal.net/e/note1mhug930fz8nktztrcurxh2k3vl88x7fl0k05rtmjqxy7cs0vjscqplgruf

How do you imagine this might be productized/useful to more people? I was not aware of this relationship and it seems like an important primitive, but it’s not immediately obvious to me what could be built. Do you already have ideas?

I believe the future is synthetic. So machines working together. And humans too, when they are ready. The main advantages I see is global state, infinite memory and orchestration.

Absolutely, #[4] provided financial support to Nostr, which is an important factor in Nostr's continued rapid development.

great to know a bit about the history from someone who was here 🤙🏻

Thanks for the history lesson!