Replying to Avatar waxwing

An interesting essay from Vitalik Buterin a few years ago, that I missed at the time:

https://vitalik.ca/general/2019/04/03/collusion.html

In the first half he nicely elucidates concrete reasons behind an intuition I've always had: that using game theory to build decentralized financial systems always suffers because they have a dependency on identity (and how I'd put it: the problem with that fundamentally, comes from the fact that identity is a fiction, an arbitrary and unanchored construct).

This problem manifests as the impossibility of avoiding collusion in various forms.

Quote:

"But in the version of game theory that allows for the possibility of coalitions working together, called cooperative game theory, there are large classes of games that do not have any stable outcome that a coalition cannot profitably deviate from."

This is the problem - a lot of academic game theory posits isolated actors, however that is *never* the real world (see: sockpuppets or simply, communication!). That's why I've always told people, just like Nick Szabo did to Manfred Karrer back in the days of bitsquare, "don't rely on game theory, replace it with cryptographic verification").

He then correctly identifies, in the middle of the article, the best solution to the collusion problems described: proof of work, because it is identity-less.

The remaining part of the article feels like a reach, looking for increasingly Byzantine (pun intended) partial solutions to what he clearly understands to be an insoluble problem.

What you want is to impose cost on actions/operations and programmable money (ideally also fast, cheap and anonymous) seems to me a better solution than PoW, even though PoW seems to be the best solution to build such programmable money.

Also to drive home your point on the murkiness of the concept of personal identity:

https://youtu.be/kVAHXiKjgRo

https://youtu.be/UjZWshQxsGc

https://youtu.be/-RDc3E5XZY0

https://youtu.be/VEQ994vqay8

https://youtu.be/sIIXc5KgzkQ

https://youtu.be/wbQ6PNUlQSM

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Yep good point you only need the PoW mechanism to bootstrap, after that you can use that "clean" form of digital money to build other systems.

As we've discussed many times, it's pretty damn hard to find value in PoW for systems *other* than Bitcoin ...