I’ve never had a problem using lighting self custodial or in size. I’ve sent 1 million sat transactions on it. Anything larger than that ONchain is preferable anyhow. If I really need an intermediate solution I could just use liquid. No need for Monero.
Discussion
huh?
obviously theres a need for private value transfer of greater than 1M sats.
Yea 1M sats is not a large tx
Liquid is definitely less private than monero and also is custodial, so liquid is better privacy than on chain but you sacrifice custody and it’s inferior to moneros privacy while maintaining custody.
I’ve never “had” to use liquid, but when I did play with it I could swap from on chain or lightning in or out. I couldn’t imagine someone being able track funds through the various transfers. That being said I wasn’t attempting to hide funds. But if you’ve swapped from onchain to lightning, then converted to liquid to do whatever, then went back out onchain or even a different Lightning wallet I doubt there is anyone that could track that. I couldn’t even imagine the layers of access you’d need to follow along. And if you’ve swapped using non-custodial wallets along the way I would argue that it would probably be impossible.
Yea it’s probably hard to trace through all those layers. I just think Monero can be beneficial as part of Opsec. Privacy and security go hand in hand.
You seem like a nice enough guy. I usually don’t engage in these kind of conversations. I guess my main point is I’ve seen plenty of large payments go through lightning. And Bitcoin that has entered the circular economy is probably impossible to track because it’s bouncing through so many sophisticated and unsophisticated hands all over the world. Even when it hits a custodial service it kind of washes away its previous history and starts over as Bitcoin from that custodian.
Like if some pushed onchain through WOS or Muun or something, then spends to 20 different people. On chain it looks like it just stayed with the custodian until a completely different person requests onchain transactions. It’s all a miasma of transactions where people tracking the funds only get little pieces of information that couldn’t possibly be used to paint a complete transaction history.
I would probably agree with you if most UTXOs were used p2p and not purchased through centralized KYC exchanges where they can very efficiently track history. And a lot of UTXOs don’t move a lot. So it’s not as hard to track those either. I don’t think lightning does large transactions maybe 10,000,000 sats max I don’t think most channels have that type of liquidity. Most are smaller at 10M sats isn’t really “large” maybe medium.
Large is certainly subjective.
But even 2million sat channels probably cover almost all purchases. It’s rare that the average person in the world is spending over 1 million sats on a single item. Most transactions are probably less than 100k sats. I usually open 2 mil sat channels for that reason. If I have to make a bigger purchase I just do it onchain.
Yes but channel size/liquidit it is still a limitation that Monero does not have and if you revert to onchain bitcoin you have no real privacy which the post was about maintaining privacy.