Both of you are right when you look at specific time periods.
Mountain lion is right: Pay your taxes and you continue to own it per the contract.
Zach is right: DONT pay your taxes and they put a lean on it and take it per the contract.
Conclusion: you own it as long as you pay the ransom. Stop paying and we’ll kick you out so fast!!!
But this is how it works all along… everyone knows if you buy a home there will be taxes to pay on the property. The only way its theft or ransom is IF and ONLY IF you were told otherwise and lied to. But no…. Everyone knows when you buy a property there are taxes. It’s literally in the agreement and contract the OWNER signs.
I think one point people are trying to make but never give examples is: In some other countries you don’t have to pay taxes. For example Dominican Republic. You buy land there and there are no taxes never ever. So your family can keep it forever without the need to keep paying. Anything that you “must” keep paying for will probably at some point be taken from you or someone down the line. They will either be forced to sell it or the tax man will come and take it. Either way… some people are happy with the contract and paying. I would opt out and move to a jurisdiction that I wouldn’t have to pay.
Then war breaks out and someone takes “your” property. I understand in some ways we own nothing. God owns it all haha.
It’s usually not other people that we are worried about taking your land. Land of the free and home of the guns drawn. It’s the federal government. This is not an inflammatory statement. Did you hear about Cliven Bundy? People in Nevada around the U.S. literally flew in to help him stand off the federal government. (With firearms in their hand.) His family had been there over 100 years.
God really does own it lmao. We just squat on his land.
I’m going to start using that. That was a good saying. “God owns it all”
Technically you are right again. Those are the definitions of theft and random. They are both inflated when people use them to talk about property ownership. But we as people inflate a lot of things to get out points across.
So why can't I say I own my Netflix movies? I knew from the start if I stopped paying I would lose them.
You never had them to begin with! You cant lose them! Thats what im saying. You never owned them and never lost them. With a house I am the literal owner.
Sure I have them! I can use them whenever I want. I can download them onto my phone. What is different between that and having a blueray CD?
Hint: it's the fact that I have to pay monthly to keep them 😉
No you dont get to keep them.
Stop paying your property taxes. You don't get to keep your house. Do you see the comparison?
So ownership means you have zero ownership costs? You only own it if it costs you nothing afterward?
No? This was the agreement made. Of course you lose your house if you signed up for that. Duh!
Man owns nothing clearly. 😂
I own Bitcoin. I use a lot of other stuff.
Think about it like this - my rent is $14,400 a year. If I bought a house in my state at the median price and paid the median tax rate (1.62% plus local taxes) I'd pay $8,190 a year.
Either way, if you don't pay those you're heading out on the street. Doesn't matter if you call yourself an "owner" or not. Doesn't matter if it was in the terms of the agreement beforehand. You know that people vote to increase taxes right? In 30 years I can guarantee you'll have a different agreement.
So I'd spend 4.5 Bitcoin to pay $6,000 less a year and have the same life, or I can keep 4.5 Bitcoin and "own nothing". This also doesn't even factor in the reality that 90% don't pay cash and probably owe interest to the bank, who are the real owners.
Ownership is about control. If I told you that you can have Bitcoin but if you don't give me 1% of it's value every year I'm coming to take it from you, would you call that owning it? Hard reality, but it's the reality.
Ill say this that no one talks about. People that dont pay their taxes… nothing much happens. Ive seen it happen. Years will go by before any court proceedings. And in the end you could just catch up and pay and they would leave you alone. People like to pretend if you dont pay they cone and take your house right away. Like thats not a reality.
Another point. You know you can buy a house for like 100 k and yearly taxes can be in the hundreds of dollars. I mean less that $1000/year taxes. Again taxes are the price you pay for roads and electricity hook up, police service, etc. great value. You can buy a house with zero taxes also. You know that right? Zero property tax. Zero.
In places where property taxes aren't enforced, you are THE owner. We agree on that. I'm basically just trying to shame people into hating property taxes so that the value proposition of real estate becomes better for regular people lol.
Aaaahahahahaha Zach that was classic. With the advent of bitcoin, I’m sure that property will be attainable and even cheap really really soon. Just keep trading green backs for orange sats.
I didn’t know that about the U.S. no property taxes? Does the land have to be in unincorporated areas?
MountainLion…. You win. Zach just said it. “Ownership is about control.” You own it as long as you control it. If and let’s hope the day never comes, but if you don’t pay and lose control then you lose ownership. But until you lose control….you own!
I can live with this. I own it until I don’t. Come at me bro! I’m ready! 😂💪
Get ‘em!
This was fun fellas. Healthy conversation is needed in this internet connected world.
Most definitely!🫂
I swear that I didn’t search this, and haven’t seen this season of Yellowstone yet. He can’t afford the inheritance taxes to keep the ranch. I guess when you have a lot of land or property… that is when you lose the ranch. When it is a small operation you might just lose a house and a few meters hahahaha.
I would ask is he the original owner though. Because if he's not the original owner it’s not that he cant keep it. It was never his. It may have been able to be passed to him but he is not the owner to begin with. So he didn't “lose” anything.
I guess in this example im thinking nothing was taken from him because it never became his in the first place until its legally inherited.
Like as much as I want my kids to inherit my properties, it wont ever be theirs if they dont pay the taxes on it so therefore they never lost anything if they dont get it. Now if they start paying and receive the property then stop paying taxes they forfeit the property actually. I really have a hard time seeing how a house/property could be taken from you unless you did something you agreed not to do. Like no one is stealing peoples homes. When we bought these homes we signed and agreed to the taxes. If we dont pay what do we think will happen? The exact thing we agreed to. House will be forfeited if taxes stopped payed.
All I know is legally when a house is “taken” because taxes were not paid the house is actually forfeited by the original owner. The documents arent going to say stolen house. Its going to say the owner did not keep the agreement they signed on the dotted line.
Now im not exactly sure the whole details of the show but it would totally suck to be able to inherit a huge property but not being able to because the tax is too high. I wonder if there is a way around those taxes like putting the property in the sons name before you die. Tough for sure.
You are correct on so many of those statements that I don’t know where to begin.
You should be, or you must be, or you just understand things on a detailed level that 98% of people don’t.
No the guy isn’t the original owner, nor was the property put into his name so he didn’t lose it. He wants to inherit it, but the taxes are too much for him. He may have lost the opportunity to keep the family ranch going, but he is more of a family man than a rancher.
There are 3 different tv shows that make up this cowboy go west and claim some land series. “1883, 1923, and Yellowstone.”
Basically, the guy in the clip that I attached was the great grandson, or great great grandson of a family that traveled west until they reached the property in question. They received it from the “indians” so they didn’t have to pay for it. Throughout the years they ran a large successful ranch with tons and tons of land, but obviously something changed and the money is running low.
All three of us understand that taxes and ownership come together.
That is not a problem for M.L. Because he knows that is part of the contract and that is fine with me also.
What worries me… because I am older is what if I become disabled and can’t afford the taxes. Does my family “loose the ranch” as they say? Probably and that isn’t something that I am willing to negotiate.
“Loosing the family farm” isn’t a meme just because. It is really what happens.
Yup. Do you own the family farm then? Not really. That's my argument. A contract where you actively have to prevent someone taking your stuff annually is not ownership. Sorry!
Gov might feel like you are the owner then. Because they are the ones obligated to service you. You hold them hostage. They gotta fix my roads and electricity. Doesnt sound they they own the roads much. Haha im only trolling now.
It's a good example though. We all "own" the roads because we all freely use them. And the people who actually pay for them are not the same group as the people who use them.
I'm a very outcome oriented thinker. I just want to produce good outcomes where we don't get robbed blind to keep the stuff we already earned.
I respect that.
A weird funny thought I had was I dont want anymore roads to be built. Because they are built with my taxes and I dont want to pay taxes therefore I’m okay with no roads. Crazy I know. 😂
We are free to use the roads until the “real owners” decide that the truckers are terrorists. Then we are not free to use the roads.
But there is a clear distinction between the rights of a property owner (private property) then someone who does not so what do you call the private property owner? Like the landlord who owns the property has different rights than the tenants. But you can’t just call the person that lives in the house they own a landlord as that implies it is rented to someone. So if not owner what do you call them?
I own the rental more then my landlord does. Few. She's got to tell me 48 hours before she even comes to the door lol.
Try to sell it 😂
I sell it back to her when I stop resigning my contracts. Until then it's mine. Renters rights are really good here. But you're right, I wouldn't call myself the "owner". That's a much higher bar.
They have a vested “interest” in the property. They would be the interested party.
Private property owner… how do they hold title? Tenants in common or joint tenant?
Or do they hold the property in a trust, or are they a managing member in an llc?
This thing goes deep. So deep that it takes years and years of study in many different subjects to overstand it all.
The difference is in ownership lmao. You can borrow something as long as you like, it doesn’t make it yours.
But what does that mean. It's not just a word. Ownership is about having exclusive control over something. The difference between the CD and the Netflix movie is the exclusive control (no monthly subscription). In my opinion, the same is true for a house.
If that's a trade-off you're comfortable with that's fine, and if you want to call it ownership that's cool too. It's your right. That's just not my perspective.
To understand why I could be wrong you have to steal-man why I might be right.
Netflix ownership and property ownership are different.
Netflix doesn’t give you a title or deed that says you own it.
You can’t go to court and show paperwork that you “own” the show “Orange is the new black.”
On the other hand… the title or deed that you sign for property ownership may say that a married couple is titled as “Joint tenants” if they have equal interest in the property. It may say “tenants in common for unequal shares as in a business or multiple unequal rights in the property.
They tell you in he name. You are a “Tenant”
