In today's context, there is a growing tendency to attribute all the adverse consequences of late-stage fiat currencies to capitalism. This poses a significant risk to society.
Discussion
Political topic gets distorted and the distorters do it to blame their opponents for their own flaws/sins/crimes.
1984 definitions, change the word to mean the opposite. Attack people affiliated with the word. Keep people confused about the actual issues and their causes.
That is exactly what StackSats is doing!
Capitalism is the economic environment in which we live today, while he argues about some weird theoretical ideology which has never been and never will be. And which for sure has nothing to do with freedom. Cause there is no actual freedom when the only thing you are caring about is making more sats
You are doing it too, and you argue for an equally unrealistic idea like communism.
I do agree, The capitalism that is desired is one the world hasn't seen yet. It will never be as pure as is desired. At least we could get real close in some areas with cryptoanarchism (bitcoin for example).
I can agree with that, the only difference is that there has never been a single state who actually was communist, as Russian communism by Stalin was Communism in one country, on the other hand have pletora of examples of how capitalism (which was also in Babylon) never sorted something fair. Rather it actually needed the intervention of the state to make it more human. Otherwise people would just steal other people wealth cause that’s what a capital is about. A capital behaves just like a huge mass in space attracting other smaller capitals. There is no freedom of choice when people follow you just cause you have more money!
I would on the counterattack argue that you guys want to change the meaning of communism, pretending countries like Russia and China to be communists! Communism has never been, cause there is too much greed. And people like you who pretend that just their own will to do good can be enough to enable well being for everyone in the world is simply just a big dream.
You also relate communism with socialism, which actually are two completely different things.
In conclusion, Capitalism and Communism are both ideology, the big difference is that capitalism has been the basis for endless wars as we live in a pseudo capitalistic society since the beginning. I mentioned the bible to say that during those times they were capitalists too.
Your capital doesn’t make you a better or more successful being than anyone else.
It’s super sad that people evaluated other based on their bank or wallet balance!!!
Yes, I get your argument that communism doesn't exist and in agree that what you envision hasnt existed. I don't think it can exist. The bitcoineres in here do have a plan and a path to reach a goal and not just some dream of a Utopia with no routes found.
But by your own logic, how can you to tell The CCP that they are not communist when they self identify as such? They've been using their definition longer than you have. If you want to propose something like the one true communism, you should rebrand to something new.
Stalin defined his communism as “Communism in one state” which differs from the idea of communism. Lenin opposed to that vision, and Stalin imposed his vision after Lenin death, by killing the oppositions, which is not exactly what I have in my mind when I think about communism
Actually that is the same argument for Capitalism, but to be sincere, capitalism = fascism/nazism or communism = Stalinism … sorry but I go with Stalin not with Hitler
They both are ideas..
One ends up in totalitarianism (capitalism)
The other in some sort of Stalinism (communism)
Again, I rather choose Stalin who killed many oppositore of course but he also killed a good amount of Nazi scam .. so I go against the nazi if I have to chose.
I am sure if someone takes a closer look capitalism and communism tends both towards the same infinite like, maybe from opposite directions. So probably the best way would be some sort of balance between the two. But that’s not true even, cause probably what we live in is some sort of mix, leaning more towards capitalism tho.
I have one question, so you think every bitcoiner is a capitalist with in mind some sort of not clear ideology rather than, accumulate more sats than you can?
Capitalism involves the accumulation of capital, which encompasses more than just money. Money is merely one aspect of capital. In capitalism, the focus is on amassing additional capital to enhance productivity, thereby freeing up time for other pursuits. Consider a fisherman as an analogy: rather than fishing with bare hands, he invests in building a fishing rod. This investment enables him to catch the same amount of fish in less time, affording him the opportunity to accumulate more productive capital, such as constructing a boat. With the boat, he gains access to previously unreachable fishing grounds, which he couldn't have achieved without the accumulation of capital.
The essence of capitalism revolves around amassing progressively more productive capital to fulfill one's needs more effectively, resulting in greater available time for other endeavors.
Ahahahahah bs
That’s not capitalism, that intrinsically a human behaviour. More. It’s a mammal behave.
What makes the difference between other mammals and us, is that we trade. They don’t.
What you are referring to has nothing to do with capitalism. It’s just commons sense, and it is part of communism too. Why are you trying to trademark a basic human behave as something inherently being part of capitalism???? It makes no sense
There are plenty of mammals who use instruments in order to achieve their goals, are they capitalist too ahahahhahagagagagagagga
They do not engage in capital accumulation. Using a tool once is not capital accumulation. Can you identify a single mammal that continually amasses additional capital to enhance its productivity?
You got it. Capitalism is just common sense. Being against capitalism is being against human progress.
You are not talking about capitalism sorry to tell you. Marmots make common sense tools to open nuts and other stuff, they are no capitalists!!
Capitalism is a system which involves the use o money and the creation of Institution, what you refer at capitalism is a mix of communism and natural laws 😂
In your perspective, do you consider using a tool like a stone to crack a nut equivalent to the ongoing accumulation of capital to enhance productivity?
I was not using the fisherman to explain what capitalism is, you did.
Marmots for sure accumulate nuts. No doubt about it. Would that accumulation enhance productivity? Well yes cause they have food that they can use in periods where there is not much around. So yes. They are capitalists in your definition.
Accumulation of capital to enhance productivity.
Also this is a super vague definition which is not exclusive to capitalism. Managing capital is banned in communism. Is just the way that the leading class uses the force class which is sort of enslaving.
Are you not part of the working class?
Are you a capital owner and earn your capital on the job other people do?
Storing consumer goods for challenging times is essentially a form of saving, while increasing productivity entails becoming more efficient in your actions. Having more nuts for difficult times doesn't make you more efficient at amassing even more nuts. You are confused.
The only element missing from my previous explanation of the essence of capitalism is the concept of private ownership of the means of production.
However, I forgot that it’s useless to discuss you. Just a waste of time. You insult people just for having different opinion. I wish you well in your commitment to communism.
Good night
You are totally wrong. Amassing nuts makes someone better at grabbing nuts cause it can eat. My confused commie friend. No worry, now if instead of capitalism I imagine you talking about communism it all works. You are a poor American soul confused to the bones
Eating nuts makes you better at collecting more nuts? It's no wonder that some individuals with communist perspectives might not fully grasp the concepts of increased efficiency and productivity.
Yeah cause the only smart people is this world is you and Heyek, fuck off !!!
If you don’t eat you die, how does eating not improve your efficiency??? YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT, so yes. Eating more and better make you more efficient. No wonder some capitalist asshole just want to pretend be smarter than other to be able to live on other people efforts like our fantastic StacksSats, which is a good parasite, holding capital and just hoping other peoples ideas and labor make him richer!! 🤣
Damn capitalist assholes
Instead of holding, investing in businesses and earn from other people jobs have you ever considered working? Cause actually is not good allocation of investments which makes the world a better place. Increased efficiency which is just a basic natural process, nothing to do with capitaltuckingism, its called evolution, and better products makes the world a better place. For sure not some wonnabe smart ass like you pretending he is a good investor, you shall get your ass on to something instead of puking bullshit about comrades..
Capitalism is a system in which bank play a central role as well as financial institutions. Capitalism without banks is not capitalism as it is based on debts and loans. You cannot have capitalism without banks, how would that work? If someone collects stuff, with which he does his own job, you would call it capitalism, I would call it communism. The difference is that in capitalism an entity can own the means of production and pay a salary to people in order to make them work. In communism this cannot work, the idea is to create small entities (Soviet) which democratically manage the community on the edge, not in the central government as in capitalism. Capitalism without a central bank is still capitalism, where few people can own so much capital that they provide means for productions for people they hire for a misery salary
Banks, central banks, and similar centralized institutions are not inherent to capitalism. In fact, central banks that centrally manage the cost of capital run counter to the principles of capitalism, where prices are determined by the forces of supply and demand.
Confused soul you are.
I start thinking you are more communist than me
If everyone owns everything, noone cares about anything.
If land is not owned by anybody, although legal formalism may call it public property, it is utilized without any regard to the disadvantages resulting.
Those who are in a position to appropriate to themselves the returns-lumber and game of the forests, fish of the water areas, and mineral deposits of the subsoil—do not bother about the later effects of their mode of exploitation. For them the erosion of the soil, the depletion of the exhaustible resources and other impairments of the future utilization are external costs not entering into their calculation of input and output. They cut down the trees without any regard for fresh shoots or reforestation. In hunting and fishing, they do not shrink from methods preventing the repopulation of the hunting and fishing grounds. In the early days of human civilization, when soil of a quality not inferior to that of the utilized pieces was still abundant, people did not find any fault with such predatory methods.
When their effects appeared in a decrease in the net returns, the ploughman abandoned his farm and moved to another place. It was only when a country was more densely settled and unoccupied first-class land was no longer available for appropriation, that people began to consider such predatory methods wasteful. At that time they consolidated the institution of private property in land. They started with arable land and then, step by step, included pastures, forests, and fisheries.
Yes exactly, normal human behavior.
Doing all this other centralized governance stuff is not normal.
Exactly that’s why we don’t need capitalism and all it’s centralised institutions. You are all plebes people. Who here is owning an industry?? No one.
You all have communist behave but you pretend to be capitalist cause someone told you communists eat kids!!!
There is communication failure going on here.
Tell me you are hating communists without telling me you hate communists!!
Hate? Nah. Don't waste strong emotion on people i don't know
Just saying there is a language barrier and probably more. I'm only responding still because I wanted to hear what a communist thinks. I really don't understand the rationale.
Also you keep projecting opinions on to me that I disagree with.
Actually you are doing the same. You hate communists it’s clear. You talk about communism the same way a communist talks about nazism
Communism is basically the opposite of nazism. Communists lost their lives to save everyone of us from the Nazis.
Anyone with a bit of brain is communist. I also think that what you have in your mind is not capitalism. American have a poor education system. You go to school and answer questions with checkboxes. You are not well trained to think. You also are pretty much full of yourselves which doesn’t help. America is a declining imperialistic power where their people where tought some strange things about communism.
The system America is ruling is of course an hybrid system, but between socialism and capitalism. The union of this two brings what we have today: totalitarian America!
Make no mistake, socialism ain’t no communism.
Then the rationale is this:
We have been capitalists since the dawn of history, as people always tried to accumulate capital and they also did it by destroying other villages/towns/cities/countries. Of course gold plays a big role in violence, but the system helps it. Marx explained how this system is a cycle of accumulation of wealth in few hand during time of peace which leads to conflict and redistribution after wars. That is what capitalism is about. Is about disparity. Capitalism cannot create an equally distributed system. And the type of money you use in my opinion doesn’t change it much. People are greedy. Greedy people only want more money and that is the root of a good portion of stress in the system.
On the other hand, communism is a system based on equality, on equal opportunities. And it’s also a system that we never experimented. Each time someone tried some fascio nazi capitalist came and destroy everything.
It’s probably a thing about being realistic.
You guys want to have a yacht and bitches twerking on your dicks. I personally give a fuck about shit like that. I want me and my people, my family and friends to live well. That’s a thing of points of view.
You guys want to accumulate wealth and then say, if we want we can provide help to the people in need, but in fact this will never happen.
I personally dislike the way the state conducts welfare state policies. I think kinda like you guys do, that the free will of people shall direct the resources freely, but I think that we need to cooperate in that. We need groups (soviets) which democratically choose how to allocate help and resources. I think you guys think you are wealthy with some bits in a wallet. Wealth is something else. You fear communists will come and take what you have. But that’s is not what a communist wants!
Personally I don’t think seizing is a viable way to do things. I think people should be enough enlighten to realise by themselves the strong shall help the weak, not using them to become stronger. This is the way we can provide more equilibrium in the system, making it less hot. Financial disparity creates friction, it may create well being for a small amount of people, but it doesn’t take in account the over all structure.
I think that no one should be forced to participate in a system and that anyone shall be free to opt out at any moment. This is in my opinion freedom.
Probably it happens the same way round, I mean you guys have a dystopian way of defining communism, and relying in what you say I seem to do the same with the word capitalism.
That may be, I agree that what we have now is not a perfect capitalistic system, it’s an hybrid between socialism and capitalism, but it’s not communism.
So let’s say I agree that the word capitalism today is abused and that the etymology of the word may have change during the course of time, would you agree that you guys give the commie to a bunch o nationalists socialist democrats due to the transformation of the meaning of the word communism??
„You like …, „You think …, You fear …, You are ..“
You consistently attribute opinions and beliefs to us that we don't share, showcasing a level of ignorance that surpasses even your ego. This makes engaging in a meaningful discussion with you nearly impossible.
That’s what you just did. It’s useless to speak to a wonna be communists!!!
Anarco capitalist my ass!!!
Anarchy is Communism!!
Is who??? Ahahah you are a group of intelligence sent by the nsa to keep up the American capitalistic dream? Ahahah
Discussion with who?
With someone who believes he owns the complete truth and treat others like minus habens?
No thanks! I can talk with you once you admit you are an anarchic communist and that anarco capitalism is the most obscene theory EVER!!
His like talking to nazi fascists..
Would you really reason with a nazi fascist?
In Italy we like them hang upside down
Actually is you who are willing to call the CCCP a communist state when his biggest advocate (Stalin) called it “Socialism in one country”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_one_country
In the article they explain how Stalin used some sentences by Lenin to justify his will to create socialism in one country. So technically what the CCCP was it’s a “socialism in one country” type of state. What you guys seem to misunderstand in the concepts, is that private property is not private belongings. Private property refers to the ownership of the means of productions. It means no one sell
his labor in exchange of a pay check. It basically means everyone shall own it’s mean of production to be able to exchange it with others. The way one exchange is not much relevant, and which ever distribution way one may choose, it will anyway create a market. So I sincerely doubt about people talking about Capitalism and Bitcoin, it just feels like some sort of enslaver who is willing to takeover something new and bring into that an old and corrupted system.
I am communist , it doesn’t mean I don’t want to sell the stuff I do!!! While you guys pretend to have the monopoly on any market. If there is a market it’s a capitalistic market. And if it’s not a capitalistic market (of which the goal is to earn more profit) it’s just shit!!
Actually I would argue that, communism is the goal and capitalism is the mean. True capitalism brings prices down this means that things become eventually so cheap that they are free, and if there is no need to use money to exchange, then you got communism!!!
Crypto Anarchy is a branch of Crypto Communism !!
Then some monster came and created Anarcocapitalism, which is a monster with 2 heads.
You guys seem to be anarco (communist) capitalists.
You seem as communists as me
Just no. Anarchy is system without government. Comunists variant has been theoreticaly created before capitalistic but ancap is still anarchy.
Denying existence of ancap is like “hawai is not pizza”. Or hypothetical “vanila ice cream is not ice cream because chocolate has been first”
(dont know what icecream has been first)
Ahahah you are so funny. Anarchy is part of communism and amarravo capitalists is like a dog with the head of an horse! Sorry bro. I don’t deny the existence of anarco capitalism. It’s just some weird guys who for some reasons hate communists like you guys, they like the fact they in anarchic communism there is no central authority, so the bite it!
lol
Wonna be communists 🤣
I myself tried studied anarco capitalism, and actually I was also in part liking it. But then I realised is like a monster with 2 heads. Anarco capitalism is jungle of capital. There is no space for humanity. Only for money.
No thank.
Keep your anarco capitalism in your pockets.
Real bitcoiners want to create local meet ups, that sorry to tell you, they can easily behave just like soviets!!
POWER TO THE CRYTPO SOVIETS!!
