#Bitcoin is electronic cash.
The real cash is usually without KYC
So let's always use that „better cash“ bitcoin without KYC too!
Bitcoin is protection against:
- monetary inflation
- excessive taxation
- confiscation of wealth
- censorship of financial transactions
The real, p2p bitcoin. Not kyc coin, not bankcoin.
Renostring the bird of nostr:npub1au23c73cpaq2whtazjf6cdrmvam6nkd4lg928nwmgl78374kn29sq9t53j who chirped...
Discussion
Yes, but, to be clear and make sure I get it.
The KYC Bitcoin in self custody is also real.
It's just that they know you have it.
They can attempt to confiscate it or tax it, but you still can claim you lost the keys or move to a different country, right?
Well of course unless they close the borders.
On the other hand, the non KYC-ed, if you bought it on Bisq using bank transfer, they might still trace it, because the seller will be likely known or suspicious for receiving a lot of small bank transfers from different people.
So is it that the only true non-KYC method is cash with trusted people? Or Bitcoin ATM? But then, convenience is out and costs are high and... In a dystopian scenario they will make it illegal to use this non-KYC Bitcoin anyway.
Of course, it will be hard for them to enforce but still.
Not good.
I'm worried.
If it gets really bad, it will be bad.
Bitcoin is probably the best thing we have, to protect wealth from inflation and theft, but it is far from a magically resistant digital gold that can withstand anything. If they make it illegal, it will be dangerous to use.
But even if it gets bad, I guess it will be better to have some Bitcoin than not having it.
Anyway. I'm probably unnecessarily worried.
No electronic fiat transfers. Peer to peer or non kyc atm.
Will they make the non kyc illegal like weed is illegal, like prostitution is illegal, like software and movie piracy?
You seem to overestimate the state...
Actually very easy in this case
not even slightly true
Unless there is circullar economy developed state have full controll over bitcoin. I am saying this as someone who loves bitcoin and hope we’ll get to the point when it is unstoppable. Right now it is not the case.
You don't need circular economy. Proxy merchants are enough. And there are plenty of them.
That merchant needs to pay his bills so he needs to convert to fiat. State can block that. Having said that i dont think it is likelly in western democracies but what might happen that every coin will need to be kyced. Which i consider to be full controll.
Proxy merchants specialize in solving these problems. They are operating even now. Some of them exploit jurisdictional arbitrage (Bitrefill), some operate in illegality, but it always works.
One has something valuable (bitcoin) and wants to trade, there's a provider making sure this transaction happens for a fee (proxy merchants). How exactly they achieve depends on the exact conditions and environment. But it works...
Also, there are many people willing to buy bitcoin, so proxy merchants provide also the other side.
It works because states dont care. Once (if) they do there wont be proxy merchants anymore. I think circular econ is actually not that difficult to achieve. Only fiat money you need is for taxes. I think if you charge customers in bitcoin+fiat it might be a good start. Having that functionality in wallet would be awesome.
Again - states have cared about the drug business for more than 40 years, yet everyone who wants to get some does. Even in states where enforcement is strict and effective, it still works.
Go to Orchard Towers in Singapore, prostitution supplemented by cocaine. Yes, they have death penalty for cocaine in Singapore.
The mistake here is to believe that this is not a solved problem. State can try to enforce something, but that creates counter pressure, because going around that limitation is a valuable service, so you'll have providers who specialize and compete on figuring out the way around.
Also, I would leave a hellish dystopia well before they could even try this, but that's another topic.
It's impossible to ban bitcoin, it can be only more or less costly to transact with it.
Right. I guess I'm saying they can easily make it illegal, yeah, just like weed.
Enforce it fully, of course they cannot, just like weed. As long as I have a computer and internet access and ability to download a software, and enter my seed words, I can use Bitcoin of course.
But they can definitely make it harder. But the more I think about it, you are right, a comparison to weed is on point.
Thank you.