no it’s a reduction in the amount of data you need to write to chain; instead of writing in a pubkey you write in the promise to pay a bunch of pubkeys at some point, in the future
and in fact that bitcoin cant be used for anything else
then you have a promise and not a utxo, which is pretty worthless if you want to use that promise to pay someone else
so people are trying to design ways to pay each other with promises instead
in theory paying with promises is less data than paying to pubkeys, so it costs less to transact
the protocol for doing this hasn’t been fully built + proposed yet; Ark is probably the thing closest to existing
I get how these covenants work, where a tx doesn’t have to be mined in order for me to send these tx’s to you, hence it can scale, but I’m talking about the part where you mentioned these promises are unenforceable and not economical to claim outright
So are you saying you’re stuck with these promises and that you might not be able to claim onchain due to fees require to mine the tx?
yes. how did you think it works?
My understanding was that you pass an unbroadcasted hash as many times you like without incurring any fees and if the receiver wants to exit, you only need to hit onchain once and only when you do exit, it shouldn’t be expensive
that’s certainly an ideal form, but i havent seen a protocol proposal that achieves that. i might be behind the times tho
do you have a link to where you saw that proposal?
ah, also: note that in order to setup the covenant, you’re going to need to make a tx. you can’t just start sending hashes around without at least one party committing something to chain ⛓️
It’s not a proposal but I have a tweet with an explanation of covenants and doesn’t go deep on how existing the covenants would looks like
Sorry when I said a hash, I meant a tx
how does this differ from ark? seems extremely similar
For Ark you need Ark Service Provider (ASP)
For ctv it looks like it’s diy tx’s
doesn’t ark use ctv?
Yes ark needs* ctv, but ctv doesn’t need asp’s
why isn’t ark using the diy design you outlined then? I don’t understand how an opcode gets you something that ark, built with that opcode, doesn’t?
#Ark goes up and away from the chain = layer 2
#Ctv goes deep into the chain = layer 1.0* 😭😭😭😭
Think of ark as being similar to #ecash , you get privacy but less chances of getting rug pulled
ctv is a primitive that lets you build protocols, like ark
saying ctv gets you “shared utxos” is meaningless without a protocol for *how* that sharing works. ark is one such protocol. you mentioned a diy one — what were you referring to?
Ctv is a script, you don’t need a protocol to pool your utxo’s.
DIY = you commit your utxo and then share the tx off chain
