i think it just will take a little more pushing at the guys in client dev most likely to get it working - nostr:npub1jlrs53pkdfjnts29kveljul2sm0actt6n8dxrrzqcersttvcuv3qdjynqn and nostr:npub1ye5ptcxfyyxl5vjvdjar2ua3f0hynkjzpx552mu5snj3qmx5pzjscpknpr

in fact hodlbod is further ahead at getting NIP-42 working, and he is also the most advanced on markets, but nostrudel has got outbox model working which is also critical because relay development needs to not be a black box,

nostr:npub180cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsyjh6w6 has contributed in a big way with building the khatru framework to make it easier for relays to be built, and i've worked on making proper CLI interfaces using direct messaging and cleaning up the organisation of his nostr library so it is more easy to understand, and fixing several concurrency bugs and improving the json processing

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We need to coordinate better with the clients. So, NIP-42 enables paying for the relays, but how can we pay for the clients?

again nostr:npub1jlrs53pkdfjnts29kveljul2sm0actt6n8dxrrzqcersttvcuv3qdjynqn is leading the way on this, you can already set a zap split to him

it is only his lack of adequate support of outbox model and the very slow response of the client to auth request envelopes from my relay (sometimes it sends a dozen before the client finally sends back a signed auth envelope) that i don't still have #coracle as my daily driver... the outbox model is basically not negotiable for a relay dev testing client, and without that it doesn't even matter if NIP-42 is working, really, outbox is > NIP-42 support

this is my experience as a relay dev, and hodlbod recently got into this arena with his own fork of khatru but charging for access is not on his priority list, and it's only one guy, so i don't like to be too dark about the things missing, as it's trivial in comparison to everything else, primal, amethyst, iris in terms of completeness of their implementation of the critical protocol features

this is also why i am constantly berating fiatjaf, pablo, and others about their work on things that don't address or disregard the importance of making the protocol self-funding

without self funding this thing will die like every VC funded attempt at social networks, it's really serious and these people just don't get it, comfortable with their fat grants

bitcoin is now bigger than the swiss franc because it is a self funding distributed system

i can't say enough towards this and really want people to get hold of this and run with it because the sooner this protocol is its own circular ecosystem between users, devs and operators the sooner we are outside of the gates, right now we are just like a billy goat bashing against a fence that is strong enough to contain him

self funding is like a set of heavy duty bolt cutters

We should start a company, issue a token and build a revenue model.

1. A client cannot start charging fees from the get go. It has to be a freemium model.

2. The client will abstract away all the underlying costs. Maybe a $1/year could be the minimum.

3. It cannot be ads based. It'll misalign the incentives again.

no need to register with the government for anything, why?

Why do we need to register with a government?

only if you want to serve them or be raped

Do not want to be raped, by anyone.

oh i forgot, not "serve" i meant "be the slaves of"

so, yeah, i'll pass on being raped or any kind of slavery as well

I got what you meant ahaha. I don't want to be their servant!

Can you explain what you mean by outbox model?

https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/65.md

mostly this... it enhances the old relay list by specifying which ones you read from and which ones you write to

the outbox model means pulling this event type and using those for the relevant case, so, posting to where you read, and reading from where you post

Thanks. Seems like a good model, hopefully more clients use it like nostrudel

it's better than the "gossip model" which pablo, fiatjaf and other rock stars are in love with... they are just youngins and don't have serious engineering troubleshooting exp