simple but effective "noncustodial" lightning wallet idea: auto-withdrawl to a non-custodial bitcoin address generated by damus via something like https://boltz.exchange/ at a certain balance. could make this automatic and default to derisk NWC custodians.
You really want the withdrawn funds to still be able to pay to a lightning invoice for decent UX, though, so you really need to withdraw to a channel.
Users get really sad when they can’t send their full balance in one transaction to any payment method supported.
not sure what you mean, isn't that what https://boltz.exchange is for? although in our case we can pay the bolt11 and fund the onchain tx directly with NWC.
Yes
I believe what you are saying Matt (please correct if wrong) is;
Users enjoy the UX more if I can send say, 100k sats right at once, the whole balance is paid including fees (based on route)
Most of these type of swap solutions include usually* an UTXO fee, which is much more difficult to predict at a set x/vbyte, therefore, there's a higher probability that some change will be left over.
-Making it not only harder to spend the new output in the near future, but more so the personal information one reveals to the network.
If so I tend to agree.
I interpreted your design as “hold funds in a custodial lightning wallet until they get big enough, then pull them on chain”. The problem with step two is now to send them back out over lightning you first have to do an on-chain transaction to set up a swap, which will be a terrible UX for paying lightning invoices.
The design makes a hell of a lot of sense otherwise (it’s kinda the old mutiny model), just have to hold the funds in lightning channels.
that's not how https://boltz.exchange/ worked when I tried it. I just pay a lightning invoice and they send bitcoin to my onchain address. I'm not sure what the UX issue is. This can be streamlined with NWC as well. Would just need to create the swap with an API call somehow.
Right, the lightning -> on-chain direction is instant, but the issue is the other way.
oh I wasn't thinking about the other way, I was just thinking of ways to custody received zaps. I am optimizing for the non-bitcoiner use case at the moment. most will not have bitcoin to begin with and will be earning it via zaps.
Sure, but once you have given them a bitcoin wallet and they have some bitcoin and are used to bitcoin transactions being instant, suddenly them sending their funds back out being super slow is gonna piss them off :(
Thanks for clearing that up I couldn't find much for documentation. Still working progress but you're welcome to see what I've got baking in the kitchen websites on my page
