Nostr Web Client

When you are at war, you keep fighting until a settlement is negotiated.

If the US is not at war with Russia, Trump quitting without a negotiated settlement is fine.

If the US is at war with Russia via it's proxy Ukraine, Trump quitting without a negotiated settlement is virtually treasonous.

I find it odd that people who claimed this was Ukraine's war not Americas are the ones most upset by Trump and calling him treasonous, whereas those of us who said this was a US proxy war seem to be okay with Trump just quitting. If you have any consistent morals, you'd say the opposite. Those saying it is Ukraine's war should be upset but accept that the US doesn't have to be involved and Trump hasn't committed any kind of high crime here. Those saying the US is in a proxy war with Russia should consider Trump to have committed a high crime by failing to continue fighting absent a negotiated settlement. At least it seems that way to me, I'm sure people will tell me I'm wrong if I am wrong.

Hoshi 10mo ago

Trump broke an alliance that lasted almost a century in a couple of days. He lied, he humiliated his former ally publicly, and praises a mass-murdering war criminal. He refuses to warn his former ally when bombers are on their way to kill civilians in their homes.

This might not count as treason in front of a court. But the amount of trust and goodwill that the USA have lost this winter is hard to overestimate.

The American empire collapsed. It‘s a normal state now. A big and powerful one, but an empire no longer.

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

Mike Dilger ☑️ 10mo ago

It reminds me of the Afghanistan withdrawal.

Hoshi 10mo ago

The difference is that now *no* US-alliance can be considered reliable any longer.

Mike Dilger ☑️ 10mo ago

The US isn't reliable for at least 2 decades, pulling out of all kinds of treaties unilaterally, and it is known every 4 years a vastly different administration may come in. No state can make deals with such a fickle entity. And that will reliably isolate the US for a long time to come.

But let me back-peddle slightly (as nobody is arguing my point yet, and I want to refine it).

If the US gave Ukraine secret warning that they will pull out on a certain date, and to settle with Russia before that date, and Ukraine decided to keep fighting anyways, then I put no blame on the US. It has to be possible for the US to choose to not be involved, and giving plenty of heads up is the right thing to do. That heads up has to be covert so that Russia can't anticipate anything. So that means we would not have heard about it. As an average citizen without access to top secrets, I can't say if that happened or not, so I can't absolutely claim Trump is bad here. Just that it looks bad.

Hoshi 10mo ago

no, the US was not reliable for non-„western“-states. Presidents changed but none of them violated the long term alliances until Trump

Hoshi 10mo ago

Ukraine will probably suffer a very bad and inhumane time. But the USA are the once who lost the most power and influence. It doesn’t just look bad.

Your theory also doesn’t match. Rearming and replacement of satellites would have started sooner.