Replying to Avatar Kruw

That's the note ABOVE my reply (which remains unaddressed), not a note BELOW it:

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Coordinator fees do not protect you at all against a Sybil attacker if the coordinator is part of your threat model 🙄

Mining fees are protect you against a Sybil attacker, and Whirlpool is especially vulnerable to Sbil attacks because THE ATTACK VICTIMS PAY THE MINING FEES FOR THE BLOCK SPACE USED BY ATTACKERS.

The coordinator fee incentives of tx0 give Sybil attackers an advantage over regular users because they get a DISCOUNTED COORDINATOR FEE for splitting their coins and participating in more rounds compared to consolidating into bigger pools.

The worst part is, none of this Sybil attack discussion even remotely touches the original point, which is how premixing is HARMING privacy while WASTING block space:

#m=image%2Fjpeg&dim=1544x1491&blurhash=%7C8SF%40R%25M%7EqMy%25hgLogt8wgtRM_D%25xvR%24xv-qV%40oNxbbakCoLR*aejZWUj%5Bxuj%5D%25MWURQWANFoMW-%3FcMxIU%25gNFWExuRjRkM%7BX7xbnQR%2BbEWBX7spf%2CxakBIonjazWBxHNssEt7kCRPtQV%5BM%7BxuRjIUof%25LRkV%40oeWCWAog&x=3226e49be19cf5640fddfd6ca3bccf5b980d5202c66abdcbe16ee69572319df1

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ODELL 2y ago

> Coordinator fees do not protect you at all against a Sybil attacker if the coordinator is part of your threat model

I AM AWARE AND HAVE STATED THIS MANY TIMES. INCLUDING THE THREAD YOU LINKED. THIS IS TRUE FOR ALL CENTRALIZED COORDINATOR MODELS.

TX0 IMPROVES SYBIL RESISTANCE AGAINST MALICIOUS ATTACKERS THAT ARE NOT THE COORDINATOR. WOULD HAVE TO PAY SIGNIFICANTLY MORE TO FLOOD ROUNDS THAN HONEST PARTICIPANTS.

I NEVER RESPONDED TO YOUR LAST COMMENT BECAUSE IT WAS PURE GIBBERISH.

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Kruw 2y ago

YOU HAVE IT LITERALLY BACKWARDS. FLOODING COSTS LESS IN COORDINATOR FEES THAN CONSOLIDATING, GIVING SYBIL ATTACKERS AN UPPER HAND OVER HONEST USERS:

Let's say you have 10 million sats. If you flood the 1 million sat pool with 10 UTXOs, you pay 100k sats to the coordinator. If you only create 2 UTXOs and participate in the 5 million sat pool, you pay 175k sats to the coordinator. THE FLOODER PAYS LESS TO THE COORDINATOR THAN THE HONEST USER.

You still haven't even made an attempt to address the main issue which has nothing to do with Whirlpool's backward coordinator fee incentives - the REAL issue is how premixing needlessly consumes block space while HARMING the privacy gains of coinjoin participants:

#m=image%2Fjpeg&dim=1544x1491&blurhash=%7C8SF%40R%25M%7EqMy%25hgLogt8wgtRM_D%25xvR%24xv-qV%40oNxbbakCoLR*aejZWUj%5Bxuj%5D%25MWURQWANFoMW-%3FcMxIU%25gNFWExuRjRkM%7BX7xbnQR%2BbEWBX7spf%2CxakBIonjazWBxHNssEt7kCRPtQV%5BM%7BxuRjIUof%25LRkV%40oeWCWAog&x=3226e49be19cf5640fddfd6ca3bccf5b980d5202c66abdcbe16ee69572319df1