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Yes and also if we are truly honest about our history it was also the Freemason, the Hessian mercenary, and the opportunistic Frenchman.

hh 1y ago

The second two were tools (crucial ones, yes) that the armed, politically motivated citizen happened to have at his disposal by chance, not really the actors themselves of the political process. And Freemasons were a subset of those same politically motivated, armed citizens. Of course, they were responsible for a lot of the ideology that motivated them, but again, just as Freemasons, no, they were not the actors.

Needless to say, I wasn't restricting myself to the specific case of the US or even to the specific outcome that the US achieved. It could have gone the other way, and it would still be the case that it was the armed, motivated citizenry who had tried to uphold and defend those values and ideology, even if it failed.

The point is that it will never be a State agent the one who does it, because his loyalty is to the State, always.

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mrclownworld 1y ago

I do agree with you. The State will never give you freedom. But the armed, motivated citizen might always need allies to succeed in taking it.

hh 1y ago

There's this Spanish libertarian guy (there's approximately a grand total of TWO libertarians in Spain, at most...) I listen to who was talking the other day about Milei's dangerous liaisons with the European far right, which are being exploited at will by the commies and the media to create the idea that libertarianism is a far right ideology, with all the ideological baggage that entails in Europe and Latin America.

Milei justifies this saying that power is a zero sum game: "if we don't have it, they do", so an anti-socialist alliance must prevail. But some of Milei's supposed allies are as socialist as any communist. They all want huge welfare states, trade barriers, nationalized industries, and so on, plus a range of anti-individual illiberal social regulations.

The YT guy argues that given all this, what happens when "we" grab the power? Whose program is to be applied? The libertarian one, or the far right one?

So yes, I agree that the motivated, freedom-minded citizenry may need allies. It may not, but let's say it does. We must remain vigilant anyway, and be the ones who lead, in that case. Ruthlessly.