Nostr Web Client

Signal app servers perform three functions.

One, they are the source of truth for your identity in the system. Dangerous point of control.

Second, since the signal protocol isn’t efficient at all for groups, they have to do the re-encrypting and fan out to all group participants. This is heavy work.

Third, they process all media. We’ll leave that aside though since we’re going to put that on blossom servers that will almost certainly need to find a business model.

elsat 9mo ago

> they are the source of truth for your identity in the system.

Interesting point.

> Second, since the signal protocol isn’t efficient at all for groups, they have to do the re-encrypting and fan out to all group participants. This is heavy work.

Whats the solution on white noise : your protocol, and who handles and pays for this compute? Client, relay, or both?

> Third, they process all media. We’ll leave that aside though since we’re going to put that on blossom servers that will almost certainly need to find a business model.

Very interesting. Maybe users are willing to pay for image hosting, this is a perk of being a paid supporter, and this is how blossom servers make ends meet 🤔

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Discussion

JeffG 9mo ago

There is no compute. MLS is just a way more efficient protocol so when you send a message to a group of 2 or 200,000, you just have to send a single message to relays.

For group messaging, blossom servers definitely don't need to keep the files around forever, they should be downloaded/cached to the client device. I think an expiration flag on blossom blobs would be a good addition to that protocol. Then White Noise and other chat clients could signal that the files should only be kept around for a month, for example, when uploading.

We have barely begun to scratch the surface of what business model innovation looks like in this space. ALMOST everyone who is building on nostr is still trying shoe-horn legacy business models (pay-to-play, saas, etc) into a structure that is fundamentally different.

Digital bearer tokens make non-interactive micro-payments possible. No one is bullish enough on that (except maybe nostr:nprofile1qyt8wumn8ghj7etyv4hzumn0wd68ytnvv9hxgtcpzemhxue69uhks6tnwshxummnw3ezumrpdejz7qpq2rv5lskctqxxs2c8rf2zlzc7xx3qpvzs3w4etgemauy9thegr43sugh36r ) !

I'm convinced that there is lots of fertile ground for very profitable businesses in this new world but people need to stop thinking in terms of capturing users and using outdated models.

elsat 9mo ago

> I think an expiration flag on blossom blobs would be a good addition to that protocol

nostr:npub1ye5ptcxfyyxl5vjvdjar2ua3f0hynkjzpx552mu5snj3qmx5pzjscpknpr what do you think?

hzrd149 9mo ago

It would be useful, but unfortunately there isn't an "expiration" header in the HTTP spec. so we would need to make our own

elsat 9mo ago

Added blossom expiration issue for y’all’s consideration.

https://github.com/hzrd149/blossom/issues/63

JeffG 9mo ago

And that’s a problem why…?? 😅

elsat 9mo ago

> Digital bearer tokens make non-interactive micro-payments possible.

nostr:npub1zuuajd7u3sx8xu92yav9jwxpr839cs0kc3q6t56vd5u9q033xmhsk6c2uc what does this flow looks like for your typical whatsapp user?

For example:

1) Have / obtain sats

2) pay per message to relay?