Nostr Web Client

This is ridiculous. The client is NOT a platform for moderation. Ever. Period.

Data should always be reliably, faithfully and transparently shown to the user. WITHOUT servers or assistive backends in ANY capacity. Direct client to relay only.

The user can make informed decisions about what they see and how they possibly moderate and manage their intake.

And the client should enable the user to control that for themselves. Regex patterns, block + mute, maybe even something like OpenAI prompt filters (if the user is willing to provide their own API token ofc)

“The code” doesn’t tell you shit about complex problems like this 🧊 nostr:note13t6nqmrq3axl7x4yh2z36fkdw2cht6rfq3pykazkmnrmmw8rrvjq44646z

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Discussion

Vitor Pamplona 2y ago

So, you prefer an option (moderation on relays) that you can't even see what's happening?

Good luck.

Tanner Silva 2y ago

In what reality are these two routes mutually exclusive? Under this delusional reasoning, shouldn’t your client be blocking users from consuming curated relays such as wine?

Obviously moderation happens at both ends of the network based on the user profile on the client side (their lists, etc) and the relay they’re exchanging info with on the other side.

Vitor Pamplona 2y ago

What I wrote was a response to fiatjaf's ridiculous idea of moderating on Relays. Don't take it out of context.

Tanner Silva 2y ago

Of course, the context is evident.

I was mentally treating the terms “moderation” and “filtering” as synonymous, since it seems that’s how you view this (I’m trying to read between the lines).

You are talking about “proof in code” which doesn’t really line up with what I think of as “moderation”. Moderation is clearly a social exercise, not a technical one. Reddit mods are not engineers.

Your logic and posture still doesn’t add up to me. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Vitor Pamplona 2y ago

Moderation as a social exercise in Nostr only works because clients support whatever "social moderation specification" exists in code.

Clients can always fully ignore humans moderating each other. Or they can use that social information in their favor. Either way, the code of the client is what decides if moderation is active or not and how much of it is being run. The social layer can only provide information to the code.

You can verify how much each client complies with your moderation expectations by reviewing its code. That was my point regarding "proof in code"

Tanner Silva 2y ago

I see what you’re saying 🤝🏻

mark tyler 2y ago

I think you guys are saying the same thing. Clients enact the moderation. Only difference is whether or not we specifically call out that the user will have control of the moderation, which of course they will

Tanner Silva 2y ago

Ya I think we both agree in spirit that we want the user to have control and clarity into what they are and aren’t seeing.

We don’t want “smoke and mirrors”, or a “greater influence” over the user content.

mark tyler 2y ago

Yeah, not to mention because what people want to filter out is very individual. Clients will restrict their usership if they only cater to a single combination of moderation preferences. This is also how Nostr will kill centralized social media

Tanner Silva 2y ago

Client software wont want to narrow their market to a particular social subset for moderation purposes.

I think the functional differences between apps will drive the users to their preferences. (One app being better at bitcoin stuff, one being super scriptable and customizable, etc)

After users have their preferences, then they will pick their preferred relays to shape the content. Some are filtered and some aren’t. Clients will allow users to toggle and organize as desired.

This is how it works now and how it will continue to work going forward. Relay curation and mod is why people love nostr.wine. Simultaneously, people clearly chose to add relays like damus and welcome.nostr.wine, they are valuable too.

As I was telling Vitor in another branch here, moderation clearly happens at BOTH the relay and client side and I don’t understand why he’s implying it’s mutually exclusive.

He can disagree with fiatjaf in spirit but I don’t see how “viewing the code” on a client clarifies anything this tricky 🤷🏻‍♂️ it’s all kinda philosophical and vague