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I think they claim secularism only in the theological sense. Loyalty to a tribe is a religion too. And Israel is controlled by a core of extremely religious orthodox jews, so the secular shell is more like a... shell.

I'm more concerned with the Christian Zionists. Without them, Israel would be much less dangerous.

Bill Cypher 6mo ago

Even as a kid the mental gymnastics required for "those are gods chosen people but we are the ones following him correctly" set off my BS detector.

At least the "let's try to trigger the end times from Revelations by voting for the Anti-Christ and cheering on wars between nuclear powers" angle makes sense for christians. Ending the world in a way that invalidates the core prophecies of your religion seems a little silly to me.

But then we get to a question I always come back to. How many global religions today have followers and leaders that are true to their holy book? For sure nothing with a Judeo-Christian-muslim lineage.

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Comte de Sats Germain 6mo ago

Followers, plenty ; leaders, none. The followers have to keep quiet about it. Actually reading the Bible is frowned upon by Christians, since most don't, and they'll see you as an overachiever or a striver. Its so frowned upon, the Catholics just made a rule that you're not allowed to do it.

The end times are representative of ego death. Revelations is talking about your psychological process in becoming a Christ, for the exceptionally few people who do it. Its simply not relevant to the average Christian. The world does not end in the materialist sense. The real world is revealed - that's literally what it means. Revelation happens to individuals, not the world.

You've never known a true enemy until your evangelical relative discovers that you actually read it... They **_hate_** people who know. Knowledge is pride, in their eyes. This is the root of their murderous hatred of gnostics, and their constant slandering of anything they deem gnostic. Gnosis = knowledge. Its the real Christianity, and its completely unattainable to people trapped in sin.