MMA is part of a milennia-long tradition of domesticating would-be warriors by making them fight in a circus for entertainment rather than on the battlefield for their families and way of life. Countless regional martial arts were eradicated by expanding empires and replaced with ineffectual sport or dance, with only a few remembering the old ways in secret.

Imagine how much more dangerous and deadly the best MMA fighters would be if they weren't captured by a sport. If they took their ability and used it to fight for their own people against their true enemies.

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Ummm hello. Israel. Krav Maga. It’s the whole point.

You know who rules based on who is allowed to practice effective martial arts 👀

Sorry guys, but Krav Maga isn't very good in hand to hand combat. MMA fighters would completely wreck Krav Maga experts 95/100.

Not my experience at all.

Not trying to be disrespectful, but how many fights have you been in? Have you ever fought hand to hand against a Krav Maga guy? What about a MMA fighter?

Every Krav Maga guy I've encountered, I completely crushed. Every UFC fighter I trained with, I could barely handle.

Plenty. Yes. And yes. It’s the MMA guys and their ego I always crushed 😉

Highly doubt it. Otherwise you could join UFC, become champion and make millions

UFC fighters are elite. MMA fighters are hobby guys. KM folks are usually training for a purpose. These aren’t good comparisons you’ve made.

Krav Maga experts who were in the military aren't considered elite? Then who is? I'm comparing the top MMA guys to the top Krav Maga guys. Wouldn't this be the best way to compare both?

Nope. The point of KM is that it’s not elite, that it can get an army ready in 12 weeks.

UFC fighters are elite athletes who train on a level average people never will. There is no top KM guy except for instructors. The point of KM was to make it accessible to all, especially 18 year olds who need to fight for Israel. It often gets watered down elsewhere. (And also, it’s heavily licensed in the US, which is another issue).

Comparing a UFC (pro) fighter to someone attending a KM or MMA gym as a hobby is like comparing Mahomes to a teenage girl playing flag football.

KM also brings in other elements for civilians and LEOs, like weapons training. It’s therefore an ever-evolving system, not a static one.

And don’t judge a book by its cover 😉 I did this shit back in the day when there was nothing but UFC 10, girls weren’t doing this, and no one had even heard of MMA. It’s come a long way. But KM has also had its issues. Many people say they do and teach it, but if they do in reality is another story.

I have a fighting and car racing ego that used to like to go into gyms and punch the “best” man on the nose while sparring and race the guy with a bigger engine. I’ve mellowed. 😆

Ah, the good old "trust me bro, that wasn't REAL Krav Maga" trope. Never heard that one before 🙄

So you want to argue until you’re right? Cool. As a woman, I’ve heard it all before too. And that’s not what I said. But go off. You ignored the rest of what I said. 🤣 have a nice day.

Aren't you arguing until you're right? You think you're right, as do I.

I fought for 15 years. I'll take my experience and knowledge over a random person's that I believe is wrong, just like you would.

Our traditional stick fighting was almost lost to the sands of time, if it weren't for the efforts of a few revivalist historians and martial artists that are currently restoring it to it's former glory as a legitimate and unique form of melee.

And also they are registered, easy to catch.

Just like the ones who are known to own #Bitcoin or the ones who have registered firearms.

Usefulness of the scheme was also proven in the Nazi Germany (IBM complicity in Holocaust).

Just saying.

Interesting points. I think there’s another angle too. In a world without guns, it’s extremely beneficial to have these skills. But in the modern world, there is not much they can do against a gun. Guns made these skills somewhat obsolete. That’s why cops and soldiers aren’t trained in martial arts, it’s not useful in modern combat. I think it’s similar to the demise of horseback riding after mass production of cars. I imagine people have made similar arguments about people giving up swordsmanship. Training to be a sword master is more about art than self defense.

Police and military in the U.S. both have mandatory hand to hand training.

But it’s just basic combat training right? Not advanced mma.

Yes, they don't do nearly enough MMA. If they trained regularly as part of their work, I would be willing to bet we'd have less shooting accidents.

Too many of them aren't able to physically handle the people they are arresting, which puts them in danger and pushes them towards lethal force.

A couple of cops I trained with discussed this with me. They only do basic hand to hand at the academy, then nothing.

Agree. BJJ should be mandatory for police. Would make them much better at their job.

I would rather pigs not be more skilled at killing me with their hands lol

I think Nic has a good point. Scared police scare me.

It is a good point but does being a cop pay well enough for that skillset? I doubt it

The two officers that I know do MMA in their free time, mostly BJJ.

It's just too bad it isn't part of their daily work routine.

I think they'd be less likely to kill you, if they knew how to handle people better without weapons.

Losing a fight is scary. I'd rather cops who aren't scared for their lives arrest me, than ones who are.

Valid point

BJJ would be helpful but Aikido would be better.

I realize martial arts guys laugh about Aikido but I personally know LEOs who swear Aikido made them better at their jobs.

Being able to disarm or retain a weapon is way more important than being able to choke an unarmed guy.

I'll disagree. To me, the problem isn't disarmament.

If someone is armed, a cop has the right to shoot them, as their life is truly in danger. I wouldn't expect an officer to put their life on the line to hand-to-hand disarm someone with a machete or gun.

The issue comes when the individual they are arresting is unarmed. If the cop cannot defend themselves physically, they have to use their weapon to defend themselves, which is what we want to avoid.

Wait I thought cops couldn’t use their gun anytime someone is unarmed? I thought that’s why female cops wrestle unarmed men and then lose their gun in the conflict.

Female cops is a whole other can of worms 😂

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This note reminds me of the “noble savage” trope.

The people who want to answer their call as warriors “on the battlefield” join the military, police or become gang members. And they usually SUCK at fighting.

They all end up as pawns used to oppress their own communities, enforce unjust laws and become complicit in the subjugation of other nation states while either being under the delusion they’re fighting for “their” people. There is no way at scale to do that in America today (other than buying Bitcoin imo).

I do find it funny how people in insular and ineffective martial arts think MMA is a nerfed form of combat when in fact it is the market outcome of pitting all the martial against one an other and letting the best wholistic approach to killing another human with your bare hands develop organically. There are basic rules in MMA but all MMA fighters know exactly what they can do outside of the rule set in a real combat situation to kill someone even faster. As trained killers they do have the presence of mind not to break the rules in sanctioned bouts eg knees to a grounded opponent, elbows to the back of the skull (TDD) etc but will do so readily in a serious combat situation.

Sorry Jay, but an average MMA fighter will mop the floor with the decorated dojo dork 10/10 times. No need to argue this fact, it’s been proven irl so many times already.

MMA is PoW. Limited combat martial arts are PoS.

The best way to advance combat is by monetizing it through competition. Before the UFC, martial arts were at their worst. Charlatans were everywhere, each claiming their style was superior. They discouraged cross-training and kept students isolated within their own systems, everything was behind closed doors.

Then the UFC came along and changed the game entirely. It gave anyone the chance to compete using whatever style they wanted. Many traditional martial arts, especially different forms of Karate, were exposed as ineffective in real combat, while others proved their value.

MMA is now one of the fastest-evolving sports. Champions from 20 years ago wouldn't stand a chance against today's top fighters.

If your hand-to-hand fighting style is truly superior, then just enter the sport. Dominate the competition, become a champion, and make a ton of money in the process.

I think we all agree that free market incentives drive innovation and improvement, so why wouldn’t those same principles apply to MMA?

I used to have these same debates with friends who had never actually fought before. It's always, "Yeah, but there are no rules in a street fight, bro! You can eye gouge and hit people in the groin. You can't do that in MMA!"

It really be like this 😂

There was a guy once, during a back control seminar, who argued he'd just poke me in the eyes if I tried to choke him.

I said sure, you have permission to eye poke when we'll roll later.

Unfortunately for him, he was too busy defending the choke than to try and poke my eyes.

I think movies mess up people's perceptions of what defending a rear naked choke is like.

Lmao. Yeah people do not understand the desperation and helplessness they’ll experience when they encounter a trained MMA fighter. It gets scary and impossible almost instantly.

Justin Gaethje was just talking about eye pokes and he said something along the lines of: we’re trying as hard as we can to hit our opponent in the head and we miss a lot and knocking someone out is really hard, poking someone in the eyes on purpose is WAY harder than that. Nobody is doing it on purpose.

It’s not a viable tactic in real combat.

It's funny because eye pokes mostly happen accidentally. I'd love to fight against someone who'd constantly be looking for an eye poke while striking.

If you put me in a rear naked choke in a street fight my backup knife is opening your femoral artery (and yes, I have rolled BJJ before).

If you try to apply one-on-one unarmed grappling to real life you may get lucky or you may get dead.

That's why street fighting is retarded. Just walk away. Losers who want to fight in the street aren't worth our time.

If you attack me in the street there will be nitrocellulose combustion and/or sharpened steel heading your way.

There may also be bystanders coming to my aid.

BJJ / MMA are great in their proper context (unarmed 1-on-1 grappling where the defending party cannot escape). The real world is rarely that.

Yeah, no one is arguing against that.

So anyway, I want to make a point that these debates are about as fruitful as debating whether King Kong can beat Godzilla, and that our ability to organize duels between individuals and local, community based militias are systemically constrained. So we can never resolve this debate in real combat for legitimate reasons of personal or societal defense.

Hi jay! Nice to meet you 🤝

That’s an interesting perspective. It’s true that many martial arts evolved in a context of survival and defense, not just entertainment. But I think it’s also important to recognize the value in preserving martial arts as a sport. The structure of modern MMA provides a way to test and showcase skill without the same kind of brutal consequences. The distinction between sport and life-or-death combat is what allows these traditions to survive in a world that no longer needs warriors in the same way.

make wars of conquest great again

never stopped*/*just tradeoffz

MMA advanced practical martial arts worldwide by pitting different styles and techniques against each other, in sport sure, but this forced focus upon what is most effective. Brutality may win out in a battlefield not to mention that technology renders hand-to-hand combat fairly obsolete in such situations, but MMA fighters are more technically dangerous in 1v1 today as a result.